Bilstein saga continiue
#61
04-20-2011, 06:05 AM
That was 2 summers ago after a track day at Paul Ricard. French mechanic setup suspension after some component changes. Car was all over the place. They tried aggressive front camber using Sims, I am trying to remember exact width but can't. The front control arms are from a 997 cup (2009 I think), not 996 so I guess from what you say they are longer. Is that the season maybe?
Car had other mistakes as well in the rear that were fixed by my tuner in Switzerland. These guys are very hard to reach and I can find out more when I sent car there next month. I think they may have some pictures too.
They told me half of the shaft was off and that was consistent with the leaking I had seen.
With corsas and my toe settings above the 2.2 or so negative camber works very well on the street (corsas I am told are designed for at least -1.5). With my dymags I also have no understeer with 730hp\950nm with this setup even on slippery roads. Tire wear is good in the front, but not so good in the rear. (kind of normal with the torque the car has).
Will post more details when I get them. Hope that helps
Car had other mistakes as well in the rear that were fixed by my tuner in Switzerland. These guys are very hard to reach and I can find out more when I sent car there next month. I think they may have some pictures too.
They told me half of the shaft was off and that was consistent with the leaking I had seen.
With corsas and my toe settings above the 2.2 or so negative camber works very well on the street (corsas I am told are designed for at least -1.5). With my dymags I also have no understeer with 730hp\950nm with this setup even on slippery roads. Tire wear is good in the front, but not so good in the rear. (kind of normal with the torque the car has).
Will post more details when I get them. Hope that helps
Last edited by GT-TT; 04-20-2011 at 04:58 PM.
#62
04-20-2011, 06:16 AM
That was 2 summers ago after a track day at Paul ricard. French mechanic setup suspension after some changes. Car was all over the place. They tried aggressive front camber using Sims, I am trying to remember exact width but can't. The front control arms are from 997 cup (2009 I think), not 996 so I guess from what you say they are longer. Is that the season maybe?
Car had other mistakes in the back as well that were fixed by my tuner in Switzerland. These guys are very hard to reach and I can find out more when I sent car there next month. I think they may have pictures too.
They told me half of the shaft was off and that was consistent with the leaking I had seen.
With corsas and my toe settings above the 2.2 or negative camber works very well on street (corsas I am told are designed for at least -1.5). With my dymags I have no understeer with 730\950 hp with setup even on slippery roads. Tire wire is good in the front, not so good in the rear.
Will post more details when I get them. Hope that helps
Car had other mistakes in the back as well that were fixed by my tuner in Switzerland. These guys are very hard to reach and I can find out more when I sent car there next month. I think they may have pictures too.
They told me half of the shaft was off and that was consistent with the leaking I had seen.
With corsas and my toe settings above the 2.2 or negative camber works very well on street (corsas I am told are designed for at least -1.5). With my dymags I have no understeer with 730\950 hp with setup even on slippery roads. Tire wire is good in the front, not so good in the rear.
Will post more details when I get them. Hope that helps
.
#63
04-20-2011, 08:25 AM
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 680
Rep Power: 72 
Guys I'll try to explain this in my broken English language as best as I can.
My front differential sealing rings were replaced,
Shaft sealing ring in front differential is less then 10 mm. wide, joint flange has a flat surface (about 15mm) that goes in to that sealing ring. As you can see this is not a lot of distance to travel. Even in factory setup depending on the road surface the front axels are moving horizontally.
Once the car is lowered 20-40 mm depending on the aftermarket suspension type we are pushing the axels a little more to the outside shortening the distance of the sealing ring area. This is happening because the whole cross member with front differential gets lowered.
Now imagine driving that car at the track where suspension sometimes works at its maximum. That lowered car now is getting even lower when taking the corners at high speeds –now your sealing area it’s even shorter because the axels are moving even more out, If that car has factory rubber bushings in front the stress and flex of the suspension its at its limits. Add some camber and shims to lower control arms and you are pushing the axels even moor out of the sealing ring.
All of those added additional camber numbers are taking the tall on the sealing rings in front differential if that makes sans.
Once we decade to modified our cars regardless if it’s the suspension or the engine we are putting a lot of additional steers on the materials originally designed and made by factory engineers.
One think that I would like to point out is that we are taking here about factory P turbo cars that are driven daily and not a track dedicated cars that can have the suspension specifically build and the front differential realigned.
It’s all started with the simple Bilstein installation
, now we are taking all front suspension a part 
I think we all agree that we learn a great dell about our cars by engaging in to discussion like this one.
To the 6speed and all of you guys - Thank you
My front differential sealing rings were replaced,
Shaft sealing ring in front differential is less then 10 mm. wide, joint flange has a flat surface (about 15mm) that goes in to that sealing ring. As you can see this is not a lot of distance to travel. Even in factory setup depending on the road surface the front axels are moving horizontally.
Once the car is lowered 20-40 mm depending on the aftermarket suspension type we are pushing the axels a little more to the outside shortening the distance of the sealing ring area. This is happening because the whole cross member with front differential gets lowered.
Now imagine driving that car at the track where suspension sometimes works at its maximum. That lowered car now is getting even lower when taking the corners at high speeds –now your sealing area it’s even shorter because the axels are moving even more out, If that car has factory rubber bushings in front the stress and flex of the suspension its at its limits. Add some camber and shims to lower control arms and you are pushing the axels even moor out of the sealing ring.
All of those added additional camber numbers are taking the tall on the sealing rings in front differential if that makes sans.
Once we decade to modified our cars regardless if it’s the suspension or the engine we are putting a lot of additional steers on the materials originally designed and made by factory engineers.
One think that I would like to point out is that we are taking here about factory P turbo cars that are driven daily and not a track dedicated cars that can have the suspension specifically build and the front differential realigned.
It’s all started with the simple Bilstein installation
, now we are taking all front suspension a part I think we all agree that we learn a great dell about our cars by engaging in to discussion like this one.
To the 6speed and all of you guys - Thank you
Last edited by slawek; 04-21-2011 at 08:14 AM.
#64
04-21-2011, 06:48 PM
Guys I'll try to explain this in my broken English language as best as I can.
My front differential sealing rings were replaced,
Shaft sealing ring in front differential is less then 10 mm. wide, joint flange has a flat surface (about 15mm) that goes in to that sealing ring. As you can see this is not a lot of distance to travel. Even in factory setup depending on the road surface the front axels are moving horizontally.
Once the car is lowered 20-40 mm depending on the aftermarket suspension type we are pushing the axels a little more to the outside shortening the distance of the sealing ring area. This is happening because the whole cross member with front differential gets lowered.
Now imagine driving that car at the track where suspension sometimes works at its maximum. That lowered car now is getting even lower when taking the corners at high speeds –now your sealing area it’s even shorter because the axels are moving even more out, If that car has factory rubber bushings in front the stress and flex of the suspension its at its limits. Add some camber and shims to lower control arms and you are pushing the axels even moor out of the sealing ring.
All of those added additional camber numbers are taking the tall on the sealing rings in front differential if that makes sans.
Once we decade to modified our cars regardless if it’s the suspension or the engine we are putting a lot of additional steers on the materials originally designed and made by factory engineers.
One think that I would like to point out is that we are taking here about factory P turbo cars that are driven daily and not a track dedicated cars that can have the suspension specifically build and the front differential realigned.
It’s all started with the simple Bilstein installation, now we are taking all front suspension a part
I think we all agree that we learn a great dell about our cars by engaging in to discussion like this one.
To the 6speed and all of you guys - Thank you
My front differential sealing rings were replaced,
Shaft sealing ring in front differential is less then 10 mm. wide, joint flange has a flat surface (about 15mm) that goes in to that sealing ring. As you can see this is not a lot of distance to travel. Even in factory setup depending on the road surface the front axels are moving horizontally.
Once the car is lowered 20-40 mm depending on the aftermarket suspension type we are pushing the axels a little more to the outside shortening the distance of the sealing ring area. This is happening because the whole cross member with front differential gets lowered.
Now imagine driving that car at the track where suspension sometimes works at its maximum. That lowered car now is getting even lower when taking the corners at high speeds –now your sealing area it’s even shorter because the axels are moving even more out, If that car has factory rubber bushings in front the stress and flex of the suspension its at its limits. Add some camber and shims to lower control arms and you are pushing the axels even moor out of the sealing ring.
All of those added additional camber numbers are taking the tall on the sealing rings in front differential if that makes sans.
Once we decade to modified our cars regardless if it’s the suspension or the engine we are putting a lot of additional steers on the materials originally designed and made by factory engineers.
One think that I would like to point out is that we are taking here about factory P turbo cars that are driven daily and not a track dedicated cars that can have the suspension specifically build and the front differential realigned.
It’s all started with the simple Bilstein installation
, now we are taking all front suspension a part I think we all agree that we learn a great dell about our cars by engaging in to discussion like this one.
To the 6speed and all of you guys - Thank you
#65
04-21-2011, 06:50 PM
Guys I'll try to explain this in my broken English language as best as I can.
My front differential sealing rings were replaced,
Shaft sealing ring in front differential is less then 10 mm. wide, joint flange has a flat surface (about 15mm) that goes in to that sealing ring. As you can see this is not a lot of distance to travel. Even in factory setup depending on the road surface the front axels are moving horizontally.
Once the car is lowered 20-40 mm depending on the aftermarket suspension type we are pushing the axels a little more to the outside shortening the distance of the sealing ring area. This is happening because the whole cross member with front differential gets lowered.
Now imagine driving that car at the track where suspension sometimes works at its maximum. That lowered car now is getting even lower when taking the corners at high speeds –now your sealing area it’s even shorter because the axels are moving even more out, If that car has factory rubber bushings in front the stress and flex of the suspension its at its limits. Add some camber and shims to lower control arms and you are pushing the axels even moor out of the sealing ring.
All of those added additional camber numbers are taking the tall on the sealing rings in front differential if that makes sans.
Once we decade to modified our cars regardless if it’s the suspension or the engine we are putting a lot of additional steers on the materials originally designed and made by factory engineers.
One think that I would like to point out is that we are taking here about factory P turbo cars that are driven daily and not a track dedicated cars that can have the suspension specifically build and the front differential realigned.
It’s all started with the simple Bilstein installation, now we are taking all front suspension a part
I think we all agree that we learn a great dell about our cars by engaging in to discussion like this one.
To the 6speed and all of you guys - Thank you
My front differential sealing rings were replaced,
Shaft sealing ring in front differential is less then 10 mm. wide, joint flange has a flat surface (about 15mm) that goes in to that sealing ring. As you can see this is not a lot of distance to travel. Even in factory setup depending on the road surface the front axels are moving horizontally.
Once the car is lowered 20-40 mm depending on the aftermarket suspension type we are pushing the axels a little more to the outside shortening the distance of the sealing ring area. This is happening because the whole cross member with front differential gets lowered.
Now imagine driving that car at the track where suspension sometimes works at its maximum. That lowered car now is getting even lower when taking the corners at high speeds –now your sealing area it’s even shorter because the axels are moving even more out, If that car has factory rubber bushings in front the stress and flex of the suspension its at its limits. Add some camber and shims to lower control arms and you are pushing the axels even moor out of the sealing ring.
All of those added additional camber numbers are taking the tall on the sealing rings in front differential if that makes sans.
Once we decade to modified our cars regardless if it’s the suspension or the engine we are putting a lot of additional steers on the materials originally designed and made by factory engineers.
One think that I would like to point out is that we are taking here about factory P turbo cars that are driven daily and not a track dedicated cars that can have the suspension specifically build and the front differential realigned.
It’s all started with the simple Bilstein installation
, now we are taking all front suspension a part I think we all agree that we learn a great dell about our cars by engaging in to discussion like this one.
To the 6speed and all of you guys - Thank you
#66
04-21-2011, 06:52 PM
Guys I'll try to explain this in my broken English language as best as I can.
My front differential sealing rings were replaced,
Shaft sealing ring in front differential is less then 10 mm. wide, joint flange has a flat surface (about 15mm) that goes in to that sealing ring. As you can see this is not a lot of distance to travel. Even in factory setup depending on the road surface the front axels are moving horizontally.
Once the car is lowered 20-40 mm depending on the aftermarket suspension type we are pushing the axels a little more to the outside shortening the distance of the sealing ring area. This is happening because the whole cross member with front differential gets lowered.
Now imagine driving that car at the track where suspension sometimes works at its maximum. That lowered car now is getting even lower when taking the corners at high speeds –now your sealing area it’s even shorter because the axels are moving even more out, If that car has factory rubber bushings in front the stress and flex of the suspension its at its limits. Add some camber and shims to lower control arms and you are pushing the axels even moor out of the sealing ring.
All of those added additional camber numbers are taking the tall on the sealing rings in front differential if that makes sans.
Once we decade to modified our cars regardless if it’s the suspension or the engine we are putting a lot of additional steers on the materials originally designed and made by factory engineers.
One think that I would like to point out is that we are taking here about factory P turbo cars that are driven daily and not a track dedicated cars that can have the suspension specifically build and the front differential realigned.
It’s all started with the simple Bilstein installation, now we are taking all front suspension a part
I think we all agree that we learn a great dell about our cars by engaging in to discussion like this one.
To the 6speed and all of you guys - Thank you
My front differential sealing rings were replaced,
Shaft sealing ring in front differential is less then 10 mm. wide, joint flange has a flat surface (about 15mm) that goes in to that sealing ring. As you can see this is not a lot of distance to travel. Even in factory setup depending on the road surface the front axels are moving horizontally.
Once the car is lowered 20-40 mm depending on the aftermarket suspension type we are pushing the axels a little more to the outside shortening the distance of the sealing ring area. This is happening because the whole cross member with front differential gets lowered.
Now imagine driving that car at the track where suspension sometimes works at its maximum. That lowered car now is getting even lower when taking the corners at high speeds –now your sealing area it’s even shorter because the axels are moving even more out, If that car has factory rubber bushings in front the stress and flex of the suspension its at its limits. Add some camber and shims to lower control arms and you are pushing the axels even moor out of the sealing ring.
All of those added additional camber numbers are taking the tall on the sealing rings in front differential if that makes sans.
Once we decade to modified our cars regardless if it’s the suspension or the engine we are putting a lot of additional steers on the materials originally designed and made by factory engineers.
One think that I would like to point out is that we are taking here about factory P turbo cars that are driven daily and not a track dedicated cars that can have the suspension specifically build and the front differential realigned.
It’s all started with the simple Bilstein installation
, now we are taking all front suspension a part I think we all agree that we learn a great dell about our cars by engaging in to discussion like this one.
To the 6speed and all of you guys - Thank you
#67
04-21-2011, 10:13 PM
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 680
Rep Power: 72
speed21 I don't have on my car any shims, spacers or adjustable lower control arms.When seals went bad I had Eibach springs on (one inch drop) and front camber set to -1.8,everything else stock.after two days of heavy driving on Monticello race track they started liking.
Now I have coil-over suspension, adjustable sway bars with drop links and toe control arms. and that works for me .
"""Also not currently known here is the definitive limits within the driveshafts before they start tugging on diff flanges and the likes""".
Please let us know when you find the definitive answer.
Now I have coil-over suspension, adjustable sway bars with drop links and toe control arms. and that works for me .
"""Also not currently known here is the definitive limits within the driveshafts before they start tugging on diff flanges and the likes""".
Please let us know when you find the definitive answer.
#68
04-22-2011, 02:29 AM
So, here is my story about Bilstein for you.
In order for you to understand my experience I’ll start from the beginning. My car suspension was always in stock; it wasn’t perfect but was very manageable while driving in the city. .Because of the way my driveway meets the street I know that my lowering of the car was very limited. Well I decided to do it anyway. .I purchased the Eibach pro kit (sways bars +springs) exactly 20 mm. drop. Had them install by a pro shop in Long Island They did very poor installation and alignment
After one week of driving my car the rear tires ware completely gone on the inside. The improvement was some to say the least. Car felt very soft and bouncy at low speeds. And overall didn’t give me the security and safety feeling I was looking for. I try different settings on sway bars but this still didn’t cure the softness of the car especially in the front and after two months of test driving I went back to stock springs 
keeping Eibach sways in front and rear. Stack suspension even though on the soft site feels very solid and safe if you know what I mean . As you know Porsche tt can do amazing things just the way it is.
Having said all that I still wanted to improve the handling of my car. So believe it or not I went the Bilstain way against all comments that I’ve read on the site. After purchasing the set of Damptronics decided to do the installation myself.
In order for you to understand my experience I’ll start from the beginning. My car suspension was always in stock; it wasn’t perfect but was very manageable while driving in the city. .Because of the way my driveway meets the street I know that my lowering of the car was very limited. Well I decided to do it anyway. .I purchased the Eibach pro kit (sways bars +springs) exactly 20 mm. drop. Had them install by a pro shop in Long Island They did very poor installation and alignment
After one week of driving my car the rear tires ware completely gone on the inside. The improvement was some to say the least. Car felt very soft and bouncy at low speeds. And overall didn’t give me the security and safety feeling I was looking for. I try different settings on sway bars but this still didn’t cure the softness of the car especially in the front and after two months of test driving I went back to stock springs keeping Eibach sways in front and rear. Stack suspension even though on the soft site feels very solid and safe if you know what I mean . As you know Porsche tt can do amazing things just the way it is.Having said all that I still wanted to improve the handling of my car. So believe it or not I went the Bilstain way against all comments that I’ve read on the site. After purchasing the set of Damptronics decided to do the installation myself.
speed21 I don't have on my car any shims, spacers or adjustable lower control arms.When seals went bad I had Eibach springs on (one inch drop) and front camber set to -1.8,everything else stock.after two days of heavy driving on Monticello race track they started liking.
Now I have coil-over suspension, adjustable sway bars with drop links and toe control arms. and that works for me . Please let us know when you find the definitive answer.
Now I have coil-over suspension, adjustable sway bars with drop links and toe control arms. and that works for me . Please let us know when you find the definitive answer.
.
Last edited by speed21; 04-22-2011 at 04:44 AM.
#69
04-22-2011, 09:21 AM
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 680
Rep Power: 72
^^^So i guess this was the set up that caused the seal/diff damage after track work? Also your account on the eibach lowering springs indicate they are like soft chewing gum vs the stock coils...which you went back to in the interim.....then your bilstein coil overs.....correct?
speed21 I think you are absolutely correct on this one,for me those springs were way to soft I actually preferred the stack suspension in the "sport mode" on track better. Alignment in my opinion was incorrect for the one inch drop on the car When the seals go bad you can actually smell it,there is a strong odour coming from the front area of the car ,that was haw I find out about it.
.but still using these same guys for the final alignment
.
Thy only had one shut I would never went back to this guys .
My car right now has about 17mm drop in front and 10-12mm. in rear compere to my stock suspension and so far I'm happy with Bilsteins.
speed21 I think you are absolutely correct on this one
,for me those springs were way to soft I actually preferred the stack suspension in the "sport mode" on track better. Alignment in my opinion was incorrect for the one inch drop on the car When the seals go bad you can actually smell it,there is a strong odour coming from the front area of the car ,that was haw I find out about it..but still using these same guys for the final alignment
. Thy only had one shut I would never went back to this guys .
My car right now has about 17mm drop in front and 10-12mm. in rear compere to my stock suspension and so far I'm happy with Bilsteins.
#70
04-22-2011, 12:37 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 6,379
Rep Power: 345
I have the 996gt3 cup lca's with the tarrett adapters, yes they are slightly different than the 997 variety.
I have 1.9 in the front with gmg springs, so far no leaks.
I have 1.9 in the front with gmg springs, so far no leaks.
#71
04-22-2011, 04:47 PM
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 680
Rep Power: 72
Chris, in my case it semis the leak was from combination of soft springs,bad alignment and one inch drop ,please remember when that happened to me the suspension on my car was stock, with exception of the springs.Your suspension it's a proven and tested complete package.
Front sway bar with adjustable links in front alone can make a remarkable difference in the way suspension travel.
Front sway bar with adjustable links in front alone can make a remarkable difference in the way suspension travel.
#72
04-22-2011, 11:09 PM
How did they get the 1.9? All from the top or do you have a few shims on the arms as well? I recall an earlier post of your in this thread indicating when you fitted the lowering springs you got the 1.9 before the tarrets and arms? If not what was the max neg they could get with just the coils, without the tarerts and arms....or did they all go on at the one time? Reason why i ask is that Slawek says he could get 1.8 with his lowering springs due to the drop in ride height which is the same drop as you. Seemed a lot of neg without using anything?
#73
04-23-2011, 01:39 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 6,379
Rep Power: 345
#74
04-23-2011, 03:51 PM
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 680
Rep Power: 72
Speed21 you also need to take in to the account my aftermarket wheels HRE.Comp. there off- set is wider then stock (don't remember exactly how much ) and this has an impact on the camber.
I don't believe that GMG and Eibach springs have the same drop My car after installation of the springs (measured from the ground to the top of the fenders) was 25.5 " in front and 26.25" in rear, that is more then one inch drop from my stock F- 27 and R-27.25. I actually mesured the car before installation.
I don't believe that GMG and Eibach springs have the same drop My car after installation of the springs (measured from the ground to the top of the fenders) was 25.5 " in front and 26.25" in rear, that is more then one inch drop from my stock F- 27 and R-27.25. I actually mesured the car before installation.
#75
04-23-2011, 04:24 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 6,379
Rep Power: 345
With gmg's, mine is at 26.2 front/26.75 rear. A 20mm drop. Also aftermarket wheels with a different offset.