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Bilstein saga continiue

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  #1  
Old 01-16-2011, 02:34 PM
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Bilstein saga continiue

So, here is my story about Bilstein for you.
In order for you to understand my experience I’ll start from the beginning. My car suspension was always in stock; it wasn’t perfect but was very manageable while driving in the city. .Because of the way my driveway meets the street I know that my lowering of the car was very limited. Well I decided to do it anyway. .I purchased the Eibach pro kit (sways bars +springs) exactly 20 mm. drop. Had them install by a pro shop in Long Island They did very poor installation and alignment After one week of driving my car the rear tires ware completely gone on the inside. The improvement was some to say the least. Car felt very soft and bouncy at low speeds. And overall didn’t give me the security and safety feeling I was looking for. I try different settings on sway bars but this still didn’t cure the softness of the car especially in the front and after two months of test driving I went back to stock springs keeping Eibach sways in front and rear. Stack suspension even though on the soft site feels very solid and safe if you know what I mean . As you know Porsche tt can do amazing things just the way it is.
Having said all that I still wanted to improve the handling of my car. So believe it or not I went the Bilstain way against all comments that I’ve read on the site. After purchasing the set of Damptronics decided to do the installation myself.

First, I measured the height on my car .27, 1/4 rear and 26. ¾ front
Did one corner every day after work and believe me when I say that I took my sweet time to do it. The rear ones were relatively easy to install, I set the high exactly on one inch of the tread on the body of shock. If I could I would suggest to everybody to double check everything before putting the car back on the ground. The front took me a little more time, but I can tell you it is possible to do it without the hub center removal. I compressed the spring of the stack shock before removing it. Set the front height also on one inch. Over, all the installation of the shocks is much easier then what is coming next
Did some test drive and noticed some strange sounds in my front suspension. So back to garage for checkup .First thing I noticed was the right lowering link was touching the head bolt on the wheel carrier when turning the wheels all the way to the right. What I did I install some extra washers (4 mm. in total) to push the lowering link away of the bolt. This allows for link to pass the bolt without any problems Just to keep everything equal I did the same on the left site as well. Went for the test drive and surprisingly I still found some strange clicking noise in the front. It took me more the five hours of test driving and checking everything in the front suspension to finally discover the problem. You see after the car is lowered the whole geometry, position and the stress on the suspension changes. My wishbone (lower control arm) needed to be tighten where it meets with the cross member. Did some more spiritual driving-testing on the most uneven and bumpy roads I could find in my neighborhood, the car was quiet. Now, I was ready to set the height, a very time consuming and painful process.
I started in the rear, set the height to 26.3/4 from the ground to the fender. That is well within the range of the Bilstein specifications. Next was the front .As I mentioned before I set both sides to one inch of thread looking at the bottom of shacks. In this setting my front was uneven, about ½ inch higher on the passenger side. What I did I adjusted the driver side only by raising the body of the shock in the wheel carrier not the spring itself .That allowed me to keep the position of the springs unchanged and equal. With that set I adjusted front height to 26.0. which is just enough for my car to pass my driveway.
Last step was the alignment; my car has HRE Com. C20 wheels that have maximum possible offset making the car wider on wheels. Base on that and lowering that I did I set the front camber to -1.2 total toe 0.08 and rear to -1.6. total toe 0.32 Did some driving again on some very uneven roads (car went up in the air a couple of times) and can tell you that my car right now feels extremely stable, safe and in balance if you know what I mean.
My suggestion to all would be not to drop the car on Bilstein to low I’ve tried different settings and find out that anything below 25.5/8 in front and 26.1/2 in rear become bouncy and hard at high speeds. Also the springs start to make some noises .I’ve got the feeling that suspension when lowered too much was working only at 50% of its potential.It was almost like car was loosing its flexibility

At the height I have on the car right now the pasm on give me exactly the sport suspension I was looking for.
So in conclusion
-don’t drop the car with Bilstein to low
-make sure your front links don’t touch the bolt on the wheel carrier
- wishbone (lower control arm) needed to be tighten where it meets with the cross member
-to even the front heights first adjust the body of the shock in the wheel carrier and then the springs.
-take extra time to secure pasm wires

That is what my experience with Bilstein looks like so far, so please feel free to take my suggestion/recommendation just as another part of the Bilstain story on 6speed saga. I’m not by any means an expert or professional technician, just someone who is trying to do some improvement on my own after all it is my car.
Attached is the pictures of the link (before and after) install with extra washers
 
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Last edited by slawek; 01-17-2011 at 09:05 AM.
  #2  
Old 01-16-2011, 04:55 PM
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Arrow What a nightmare...

...crazy experience... but of your own doing, right?

Suspension geometry is a somewhat tricky business.

Good of you to post your experience as a headsup to others.

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  #3  
Old 01-17-2011, 06:57 AM
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Yes, it's a big job, and a PIA DIY. Tarret, among others, offer suspension spacers, essentially washers that do the same thing. Might consider flipping the drop ling mounting point med/lateral to get the correct geometry.
Good job!
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:03 AM
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also may want to get a computerized corner balance. After all the work you did, I'd hate for you to eat up a new set of tires as well.

oh and btw its shock and stock,
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:07 AM
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Wow, thats quite a unique story. Although all self inflicted, it sounds like you had a rough trot with your so called expert who installed your lowering springs. I think the motto of your story should be:
1) Check the experts references first before allowing him to touch your P car. 2) A proper wheel alignment for a P involving caster camber changes requires true knowledge and experience....again best to check your so called experts P car credentials first
3) Fittting a coil over system is not a lay mans job.
4) Setting ride heights caster and camber settings on a P car is not a lay mans job.
I could go on...
Btw neg camber on a 997tt is never more on the rear than the front. I really think you should take your car to someone who really knows what they are doing to set it up properly. No offense but If you can afford to own a car like this and then spend money on a bilstein damptronic coil over set up as well then surely you can afford to have someone fit it and set it up properly.....or am i missing something here???
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:59 AM
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Yeas, my experience with lowering springs wasn’t the best .First the springs didn’t offer what I was looking for, second my installer even though highly recommended did lousy job to say the least.
“”Btw neg camber on a 997tt is never more on the rear than the front.””
Speed21 I don’t know where did you get that information from but this is the first for me
My alignment on the car is perfect (as to the height of my car and the offset of my wheels) and so are positions of Bilstein on each corner. The whole idea of presenting my experience with Bilstein was to point out the known lowering too much of the car and the links issue. Also just to set the height on four corners can take more them one day as each time you adjust one its effects the other sides..
“”.or am i missing something here??? “”
I think you missed the fact that my work was completed and I never wrote that I did the alignment and final checkup by myself.
 

Last edited by slawek; 01-17-2011 at 09:19 AM.
  #7  
Old 01-17-2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dinorocz
also may want to get a computerized corner balance. After all the work you did, I'd hate for you to eat up a new set of tires as well.

oh and btw its shock and stock,
Thanks for pointing this out dinorocz,
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TT Surgeon
Yes, it's a big job, and a PIA DIY. Tarret, among others, offer suspension spacers, essentially washers that do the same thing. Might consider flipping the drop ling mounting point med/lateral to get the correct geometry.
Good job!
Chris ,according to my alignment printout and equal adjustment on all springs front and rear the geometry of the car should be good. I defenilty will change the lowering links to adjustable ones. Thanks
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:35 AM
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Good job on the install, glad the bilsteins are working out.
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:55 AM
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Hi Doug, I did some heavy driving couple of days ago and at my settings they work great enough flexibility in the suspension for me to feel safe and in control of the car.
Only think that Bilstein should change on them is the pasm wire in the front shocks .I think it would be much better if the wire would cam out of the top ,or if not they should use only one wire without the additional extension. coming from the bottom
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:17 AM
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Curious to know who the "expert" shop on LI was.
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:28 AM
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I know this may be off topic but I'm curious if the shop addressed your problems at all or tried to make any ammends?
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by slawek
Hi Doug, I did some heavy driving couple of days ago and at my settings they work great enough flexibility in the suspension for me to feel safe and in control of the car.
Only think that Bilstein should change on them is the pasm wire in the front shocks .I think it would be much better if the wire would cam out of the top ,or if not they should use only one wire without the additional extension. coming from the bottom
And that's the achilles heel of the Damptronic, even the slightest trauma to the base of the strut causes a terminal PASM failure. Only a thin plastic cap "protects" the PASM wires from damage, and potentially causes damage during some installations by crimping the wires.The only cure is replacement of the entire strut body. I'm quite sure the location of the wire is purely a cost move for ease of packaging the system for other applications. Had they just followed the OEM lead they would still be on my car.
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:03 PM
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Doug, I actuality installed another cup under the black one (now I have two) to secure the wire , you can't see on the picture but it is inside and used heavy-duty electrical straps to secure the pasm wire.I've checked different heights and can tell you that anybody who set Bilstein Damptronics in front at below 25.5 inches is asking for trouble.
 
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by E55AMG
Curious to know who the "expert" shop on LI was.
All i can tell you it was a disaster ,had to replaced two rear tires and left lower control arm because the rubber boot was damage, naturally somewhere else I've owned over forty cars in my life all of them ware modified and to tell you the truth in the end is not the shop but a mechanik who at very particular day did lousy job.
 


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