Yep this is a sticky one for sure... Basically all the tunes we do I make sure that the rev limit is kept to stock. I've seen and used other software before where there's been misinformation about "it's ok to have the rev limit set higher as we've coded it so that it doesn't record them etc..." BS... Unless you have a built motor and/or some sort of big-hp (700 plus) kit I would never recommend raising the rev limiter. A lot of tunes are set for 200-400 higher but what's the point. Power usually falls off before then anyways and you get left with a bunch of type X over revs on your report card.

So anyone with stock turbos and looking at software be sure to tell your tuner of choice you want the stock rev limiter...

 

After I put the bigger vtg turbos on I took my wife for a drive. I nailed it in first and second and totally flubbed the shift to third (it didn't engage third). I watched the revs shoot up and thought "damn, here are some range 4 or more coming up". To my surprise, nothing showed up on durametric. Phew.

 

Hey Alex, thanks for chiming in. Pity we can't hear from a tuner like Softronic or FVD etc that raise the limiter. I agree its not often you need to even hit the limiter as often a shift up to the next gear will do more than eke-ing out that last bit before changing up. You are spot on the assurances that spikes won't occur as a consequence of raising limits is flawed info im afraid however 'im not 100% convinced if the cars with stock limits on their AM tunes are totally immune from this issue either. Have you ever done a check on any of your customer's 997tt cars? I guess you would have the durametric obd tool? If so maybe do a few spot checks on cars that have had tunes in for a while. I'd be interested to know the result. On the QT of course .

 

Boggy. You may need to trade on a tip..JK . Has all that extra power has thrown you off?. Did you have time to see where the tach needle went to or were things happening too fast to be 100% sure? Can't possibly have gone beyond 6000.

 

When they raise the RL (type 1), it throws off all the other type 2-6 calibration points, this is why you see multiple type 2-4 errors when you have never missed a shift.
Agree w sharky, I would never raise the RL on a stock bottom end motor, what's the point?

 

You had the FVD tune on your last car so how did that effect your counters? Did you find any in the upper?

 

Yes, I had a few type 1-4s, which were impossible (3,4s), unless the dealer took it out for a joy ride while in for service.

 

Dude, you are way off here. And throwing out names like Softronic or FVD is equally as off.

I can easily prove your info here but would rather not get into a heated debate, just do yourself and others a favor and dont throw out names

I usually think that you are pretty good with your posts, and your info is well accepted, just off on this post here.

EDIT: PM sent

Edit #2: if by any chance i misunderstood your point, my apology, I reread your post and it can be taken in 2 ways, so in any case, waiting to hear your points and obviously more info from more tuned cars would be good to have.

 

lol
I gotta say Paul that this upgrade is great. The car feels much stronger and smoother delivery of power. You'd like it. I looked at the needle quickly and could've sworn it was waaay down to the right into the crying zone but thankfully nothing registered, apart from the rolling eyes of the wifey. But she was impressed with the power.

 

Thats quite a reaction dinorocz! Firstly there was no ambiguity in my post nor was it designed to be any form of rock throwing exercise. I believe buyers should be aware of the pitfalls when deciding on any tune. Buyers are generally becoming more aware these days due to the information on the web and the more info that can be provided the better. Moreso, if there are problems with a product it also places pressure on the manufacturer to correct the problems so a better product is (hopefully) provided at one point. Where Softronic is concerned, I was told on good advice Softronic had cured this problem on the 996tt cars but NOT the 997ttcar at this stage. Now if i have been misinformed i am more than happy to be put straight, but i'd like to hear that from the tuner.

My hoping Softronic, FVD (and "etc") would chime in so to "give tuners explanations" for why this occurs and, if any had yet managed to correct the problem as it IS a problem....no question about that. I would name other tune brands if i was aware they used the same flash client as these 3 particular tuners use however my knowledge is limited on that aspect.

I understand there are some owners who spend their hard earned $$$ on AM tunes and other mods that demonstrate on occasion a natural tendency to be "brand protective" with regard to the $ decisions they have made however, this goes beyond that. I'm not getting all brand sensitive over the fact my own tune has this issue but i'm also not going to kid myself it doesn't have it either. My tuner is working on the problem and i'm confident at one point he will get on top of it. He is widely recognized as being one of the best tuners out there. One spike in any zone is one spike too many in my books. These counters have been put there for a specific reason and a spike indicates a particular level of abuse in Porsche's eyes (depending upon the range) or, poor driving skills (unable to make correct downshifts) and/or both. Naturally the higher the range the worse the opinion is formed when an evaluation of the range counters is conducted. Aside from jeopardising favourable warranty outcomes these spikes also marr the vehicle at one point where a buyer uses the range counters in their buying decision making process.

Dinorocz, you say "im way off"? Then please indulge me and show me where it is exactly that i'm "off". You also say "you can easily prove your info here" then please feel free to go ahead and do so. I'm all ears waiting . A debate usually only becomes heated if the info provided is flawed or cannot be substantiated with facts from the manufacturer. So, if my info is "off" anywhere then please provide facts....and preferably from your tuner.

I suspect there may be many here that would appreciate the knowledge.

 

I get your point much clearer now, and your question has me interested in a tuner procured answer. I guess I will hold my horses until we do get a professional response.

 

We're fortunate enough to be in the position of being a tuner, but also obviously affiliated with a dealer.

Here's the thing about having a tuned ECU and over-revs. Even if you're redline is raised....over-revs are STILL recorded at the factory levels. If you're rev limiter is set to 7300 then you'll record a range 3 over-rev every time you go there. If anyone tells you otherwise they're simply lying. Also, like Sharky said...there's absolutely no point to raising the rev limit on a lightly modded car. Power is already dropping off at that point anyway, so why take a chance. The only time it makes sense to raise it is if you're running a built motor, or upgraded turbos that can continue to produce power up there. Even still, only by 100 or 200 rpm....not more.

As someone pointed out earlier, it is possible to get into a range 1 or 2 during accelleration...but it's rare. Range 3 and higher....well, to be honest, the only way these can happen is if you're rev limit was raised by an aftermarket tune, or you mis-shifted.

 

thanks for shedding some professional light on the subject, quick question Tom, and mostly because there is such a variety on the topic, how bad are level 3,4,5,6 on the readouts? Can you please explain from maybe some examples of cars that had certain levels and had issues or no issues. Thanks in advance.

 

Here's sort of a chart that might help..lol:

Range:
1 -- Don't stress it, the dealer won't.
2 -- Don't stress it, the dealer still won't....but come on, shift when the needle gets close to the red!
3 -- OK...you need to start paying closer attention to those upshifts. The dealer might give you a slap on the wrist, but nothing to worry about.
4 -- Probably need to work on downshifting a little. Not a warranty-breaker, but might raise a few eyebrows at the dealer depending on the circumstances.
5,6 -- Something is wrong. Maybe your shifter linkage is messed up, or maybe someone told you 5th --> 2nd was OK...but you're flirting with disaster. Eventually, something WILL break.

The last 2 cars that came in here with blown motors each showed Range 5 and 6 over-revs. At that level, you're seriously testing the mechanical limitations of the engine. Eventually, it will cause a problem. Some people don't get more then one chance....it could be that one Range 5 or 6 that breaks it.

 

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you for the most awesome explanation, rep pts