Latest Turbo S vs GTR track review. Let the yodeling begin..
#151
06-12-2011, 08:03 AM
1) I have a good memory
. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ability-2.html Post 23 may jog your memory.
And spec V or, V spec...whatever, represented a lighter version that Nissan evidently felt had merit in building....and perservering with. Less weight fixes a lot of things. Nissan knows that.
2) Does any car need better performance? C'mon. We all know the answer to that one.
3) But its comforting to know when you take your car out you can do what you want and drive it back without calling a flatbed.
4) 1/4 mile times may not be everything but then neither is being a second faster around a track most will never drive in their lifetime (nurburgring).
But it's things like 1/4 and lap times that evidently mean something to the majority of buyers else why are the brands so competitive in these areas? You say the Nissan is a great street car....no argument.....it's great for the money however the Porsche is superior on most accounts....if not grossly overpriced in comparison. Track is another story but it's well recognized the Porsche is more durable in that environment. At the end of the day both are great cars. I would agree it comes down to what one wants in a performance car and if the wants can be satisfied at a lesser price then terrific.
.
. https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ability-2.html Post 23 may jog your memory.And spec V or, V spec...whatever, represented a lighter version that Nissan evidently felt had merit in building....and perservering with. Less weight fixes a lot of things. Nissan knows that.
2) Does any car need better performance? C'mon. We all know the answer to that one.
3) But its comforting to know when you take your car out you can do what you want and drive it back without calling a flatbed.
4) 1/4 mile times may not be everything but then neither is being a second faster around a track most will never drive in their lifetime (nurburgring).
But it's things like 1/4 and lap times that evidently mean something to the majority of buyers else why are the brands so competitive in these areas? You say the Nissan is a great street car....no argument.....it's great for the money however the Porsche is superior on most accounts....if not grossly overpriced in comparison. Track is another story but it's well recognized the Porsche is more durable in that environment. At the end of the day both are great cars. I would agree it comes down to what one wants in a performance car and if the wants can be satisfied at a lesser price then terrific.
.2) Nissan set the 911 Turbo as the benchmark - they acheived it, no need to improve until Porsche does, no?
3) This is where your ignorance surfaces... If the car's transmission temps gets into the 280's (which, I'm sure has only been done by a limited few, others are trying to avoid the 260 mark), finish you finish your weekend, and then change the fluids. There is no catastrophic failure that will occur.
4) I never argued durability by comparison, and I don't disagree with this at all. Some consider the GT-R more for less money, some consider it less. It all depends on who is looking. What I do is offer some of the counters (some care, some don't - this is not my concern). Like when the picture was posted recently of the GT-R for sale with all of those displays on the MFD, and somebody asked if all GT-R's come with this option... It has been standard (like ev-ery-thing else on the car) since 2008 (2007 in other markets).
#153
06-12-2011, 09:42 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Overland Park, KS USA
Posts: 179
Rep Power: 27 
1) still haven't answered my question...
2) Nissan set the 911 Turbo as the benchmark - they acheived it, no need to improve until Porsche does, no?
3) This is where your ignorance surfaces... If the car's transmission temps gets into the 280's (which, I'm sure has only been done by a limited few, others are trying to avoid the 260 mark), finish you finish your weekend, and then change the fluids. There is no catastrophic failure that will occur.
4) I never argued durability by comparison, and I don't disagree with this at all. Some consider the GT-R more for less money, some consider it less. It all depends on who is looking. What I do is offer some of the counters (some care, some don't - this is not my concern). Like when the picture was posted recently of the GT-R for sale with all of those displays on the MFD, and somebody asked if all GT-R's come with this option... It has been standard (like ev-ery-thing else on the car) since 2008 (2007 in other markets).
2) Nissan set the 911 Turbo as the benchmark - they acheived it, no need to improve until Porsche does, no?
3) This is where your ignorance surfaces... If the car's transmission temps gets into the 280's (which, I'm sure has only been done by a limited few, others are trying to avoid the 260 mark), finish you finish your weekend, and then change the fluids. There is no catastrophic failure that will occur.
4) I never argued durability by comparison, and I don't disagree with this at all. Some consider the GT-R more for less money, some consider it less. It all depends on who is looking. What I do is offer some of the counters (some care, some don't - this is not my concern). Like when the picture was posted recently of the GT-R for sale with all of those displays on the MFD, and somebody asked if all GT-R's come with this option... It has been standard (like ev-ery-thing else on the car) since 2008 (2007 in other markets).
If you are a novice, or intermediate driver at HPDE events, then yes, you can probably keep the temperature below 260F on the tranny oil. Also, even if you're an advanced driver, you can keep the temps below the critical point re: having to change the oil within 1800 miles, but ONLY by backing off after 3-4 WOT laps. The only way if you're a 'committed' HPDE driver and tracking in a moderate to hot climate to keep the car on track for the full 25 minutes at WOT, is to invest in cooling options, otherwise to ensure continued warranty coverage, you'll have to change out the transmission fluid after every weekend, (or at least within 1800 miles) at a cost of well over $1,000. This is simply insanity for the 'track rats' amongst us. Whilst having to spend that much money on changing the transmission fluid after every event when you've 'over-heated' the oil isn't considered a 'catastrophic failure', it certainly could be considered a swift kick in the ghoolies to your bank balance!! lol
Bish
#154
06-12-2011, 10:08 AM
Re: #3: Every owner that I have run with here in the midwest that own a GT-R and are advanced drivers, have gotten the transmission oil into the yellow and then red zones in the KS summer weather at HPDEs.
If you are a novice, or intermediate driver at HPDE events, then yes, you can probably keep the temperature below 260F on the tranny oil. Also, even if you're an advanced driver, you can keep the temps below the critical point re: having to change the oil within 1800 miles, but ONLY by backing off after 3-4 WOT laps. The only way if you're a 'committed' HPDE driver and tracking in a moderate to hot climate to keep the car on track for the full 25 minutes at WOT, is to invest in cooling options, otherwise to ensure continued warranty coverage, you'll have to change out the transmission fluid after every weekend, (or at least within 1800 miles) at a cost of well over $1,000. This is simply insanity for the 'track rats' amongst us. Whilst having to spend that much money on changing the transmission fluid after every event when you've 'over-heated' the oil isn't considered a 'catastrophic failure', it certainly could be considered a swift kick in the ghoolies to your bank balance!! lol
Bish
If you are a novice, or intermediate driver at HPDE events, then yes, you can probably keep the temperature below 260F on the tranny oil. Also, even if you're an advanced driver, you can keep the temps below the critical point re: having to change the oil within 1800 miles, but ONLY by backing off after 3-4 WOT laps. The only way if you're a 'committed' HPDE driver and tracking in a moderate to hot climate to keep the car on track for the full 25 minutes at WOT, is to invest in cooling options, otherwise to ensure continued warranty coverage, you'll have to change out the transmission fluid after every weekend, (or at least within 1800 miles) at a cost of well over $1,000. This is simply insanity for the 'track rats' amongst us. Whilst having to spend that much money on changing the transmission fluid after every event when you've 'over-heated' the oil isn't considered a 'catastrophic failure', it certainly could be considered a swift kick in the ghoolies to your bank balance!! lol
Bish
Unless the car decides to put you in a tire wall (i.e. GT-R @ CMP a little while ago), because the driver isn't required.
#155
06-12-2011, 11:07 AM
I was unaware members required track time or performance driving schools to qualify for the discussion bob. Phew!...just as well i have plenty of both . Although, i do admit i'm guilty of keeping up with the latest performance car info through various media forms (6speedonline included 
).....but only due to my passion with performance cars. And, controversy usually happens when there are valid doubts over certain claims, and everyone is entitled to an opinion .
. Although, i do admit i'm guilty of keeping up with the latest performance car info through various media forms (6speedonline included ).....but only due to my passion with performance cars. And, controversy usually happens when there are valid doubts over certain claims, and everyone is entitled to an opinion .
#156
06-12-2011, 12:34 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Overland Park, KS USA
Posts: 179
Rep Power: 27 Exactly. There are no catastrophic failures that would require a flatbed to leave the track. Just means you'll spend more money on fluids, and it's cheaper to purchase a trans cooler (for us po' GT-R folk).
Unless the car decides to put you in a tire wall (i.e. GT-R @ CMP a little while ago), because the driver isn't required.
Unless the car decides to put you in a tire wall (i.e. GT-R @ CMP a little while ago), because the driver isn't required.
I always find it funny how so many people call the GT-R anodyne, or un-involving to drive. It's actually far from it, it's just that it's limits are so high that you have to get really used to it, and adjust your mindset. A GT-R driven in 'R' mode with VDC off in a committed fashion is very engaging. You just have to respect it's limits and physics of course. Perhaps the above driver forgot that?
Bish
#157
06-12-2011, 03:16 PM
Damn, sorry to hear that. Hope the driver is ok.
I always find it funny how so many people call the GT-R anodyne, or un-involving to drive. It's actually far from it, it's just that it's limits are so high that you have to get really used to it, and adjust your mindset. A GT-R driven in 'R' mode with VDC off in a committed fashion is very engaging. You just have to respect it's limits and physics of course. Perhaps the above driver forgot that?
Bish
I always find it funny how so many people call the GT-R anodyne, or un-involving to drive. It's actually far from it, it's just that it's limits are so high that you have to get really used to it, and adjust your mindset. A GT-R driven in 'R' mode with VDC off in a committed fashion is very engaging. You just have to respect it's limits and physics of course. Perhaps the above driver forgot that?
Bish
#158
06-12-2011, 03:38 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Overland Park, KS USA
Posts: 179
Rep Power: 27 You may have seen it on another forum... He was going for the lap record, without being patient enough to build air pressures. He knew the risks, and went for it anyway. We hope to see him at the GT-R event next month. I'm actually curious to see the runs in the middle of Summer, who stays out for a while, who does cool down laps... Half of me wants it to rain, so I don't have to worry about that crap (still haven't decided on a cooling package). Besides, I learn a whole lot more about the car when tracking in the rain (the most I learned was last Feb tracking in the freezing rain, like driving with roller skates on ice).
Bish
#159
06-12-2011, 03:39 PM
Thankfully, they are...
As an owner of both, they are really hard to compare. They are both great cars and each does what they're supposed to do amazingly well.
One place that Porsche destroys Nissan is the out-of-car ownership experience. I've owned my S for less than a month and I'm already a member of PCA and am planning to hit Porsche Driving School. I've begged Nissan to do something similar with GT-R owners for years but, I'll just leave it at that
That reason above is why I didn't re-up into a '12 GT-R Black Edition and decided to come to Porsche. Ironically, due to Nissan's lack of cooperative community building, they're doing a very good job of selling Porsches. Anyway, this debate is ridiculous. If you own either of these cars, enjoy them and be happy. You've got an amazing car in your driveway or garage.
#160
06-12-2011, 04:27 PM
Thanks speed.
Thankfully, they are...
As an owner of both, they are really hard to compare. They are both great cars and each does what they're supposed to do amazingly well.
One place that Porsche destroys Nissan is the out-of-car ownership experience. I've owned my S for less than a month and I'm already a member of PCA and am planning to hit Porsche Driving School. I've begged Nissan to do something similar with GT-R owners for years but, I'll just leave it at that That reason above is why I didn't re-up into a '12 GT-R Black Edition and decided to come to Porsche. Ironically, due to Nissan's lack of cooperative community building, they're doing a very good job of selling Porsches.
Anyway, this debate is ridiculous. If you own either of these cars, enjoy them and be happy. You've got an amazing car in your driveway or garage.
Thankfully, they are...
As an owner of both, they are really hard to compare. They are both great cars and each does what they're supposed to do amazingly well.
One place that Porsche destroys Nissan is the out-of-car ownership experience. I've owned my S for less than a month and I'm already a member of PCA and am planning to hit Porsche Driving School. I've begged Nissan to do something similar with GT-R owners for years but, I'll just leave it at that
That reason above is why I didn't re-up into a '12 GT-R Black Edition and decided to come to Porsche. Ironically, due to Nissan's lack of cooperative community building, they're doing a very good job of selling Porsches. Anyway, this debate is ridiculous. If you own either of these cars, enjoy them and be happy. You've got an amazing car in your driveway or garage.
Basically, I'd equate that to a Porsche Turbo club (you must have a Turbo to sign up). No such thing exists. So people who have Boxters are treated the same as a GT2RS or Carrera GT owner.
If Toyota had something like that a member could show up in a Corolla or an LFA.
#161
06-13-2011, 05:17 AM
The car can't do 5 consecutive laps without overheating. I'm not stupid enough to let it happen, ok, so no reliability issues.
I was at the track my my GT2, for more than 2 hours, being 30 minutes at a time, doing consistent 2:22.4 (4 laps at the same tenth) with RADIAL tires, and the most important thing (not the time) the car goes back to the pits the same way it goes to the track, and just sits and wait for the next session. Temps were over 100 and I bet track temps were about 130 +
I was at the track my my GT2, for more than 2 hours, being 30 minutes at a time, doing consistent 2:22.4 (4 laps at the same tenth) with RADIAL tires, and the most important thing (not the time) the car goes back to the pits the same way it goes to the track, and just sits and wait for the next session. Temps were over 100 and I bet track temps were about 130 +
#162
06-13-2011, 05:33 AM
The car can't do 5 consecutive laps without overheating. I'm not stupid enough to let it happen, ok, so no reliability issues.
I was at the track my my GT2, for more than 2 hours, being 30 minutes at a time, doing consistent 2:22.4 (4 laps at the same tenth) with RADIAL tires, and the most important thing (not the time) the car goes back to the pits the same way it goes to the track, and just sits and wait for the next session. Temps were over 100 and I bet track temps were about 130 +
I was at the track my my GT2, for more than 2 hours, being 30 minutes at a time, doing consistent 2:22.4 (4 laps at the same tenth) with RADIAL tires, and the most important thing (not the time) the car goes back to the pits the same way it goes to the track, and just sits and wait for the next session. Temps were over 100 and I bet track temps were about 130 +
To be honest, is there any point? You refuse to answer key questions i have asked you on two occasion's....
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 06-13-2011 at 06:21 AM.
#163
06-13-2011, 06:01 AM
Yes, I remember Nissan saying that as well (back in '08). Apparently it wasn't as extreme as we thought (they aren't in the negative).
#164
06-13-2011, 06:13 AM
Weight isn't as important as balance. I mean, sure if you're going straight only - weight can hold you back. But if you're lightweight and not balanced you won't be able to corner as well (Nissan didn't focus on straight line abilities). Balance is the key - and I think it took a lot of engineering to make this pig fly.
#165
06-13-2011, 06:20 AM
The car can't do 5 consecutive laps without overheating. I'm not stupid enough to let it happen, ok, so no reliability issues.
I was at the track my my GT2, for more than 2 hours, being 30 minutes at a time, doing consistent 2:22.4 (4 laps at the same tenth) with RADIAL tires, and the most important thing (not the time) the car goes back to the pits the same way it goes to the track, and just sits and wait for the next session. Temps were over 100 and I bet track temps were about 130 +
I was at the track my my GT2, for more than 2 hours, being 30 minutes at a time, doing consistent 2:22.4 (4 laps at the same tenth) with RADIAL tires, and the most important thing (not the time) the car goes back to the pits the same way it goes to the track, and just sits and wait for the next session. Temps were over 100 and I bet track temps were about 130 +