Should you even be on a car forum, you clearly don't care about cars, just about the badge.

There are many great cars from 'lessor ranking' marques and a true enthusiast would understand.

Is a Ford GT 'just a Ford' in the same way a Focus is?

Is an M3 CSL 'just a BMW' like an X3?

Is a 'GT3 RS 4.0 or CGT' just a Porsche, like a used 2.7 Boxster?

When my GTR sat in the drive alongside my Gallardo, Ruf GT2, M3 CSL and Alpina B5, it sat there having rightly earned it's place. The badge on the front mattered nothing to me.

 

For my needs, I honestly don't care about the road course, but I certainly care about handling and braking. But since Porsche (and Porsche owners) prides itself on its ability to build superior handling, road-course cars (and not drag-cars), I believe it's important to show how well the GT-R beats Porsche at its own game. I do find it a bit funny that Porsche's top dog Turbo doesn't handle well enough to consistently beat it around a road-course, even though the TTS has a definite acceleration, weight, and tire advantage. I mean we're talking about a 3,900 lb Nissan on runflats here....yet only the stripped down GT3s and GT2s are competitive.

Anyway, just like all of my other cars, my current GT-R will cater to straight line performance....while still maintaining above-average handling and braking abilities. The exact reason I chose to build a GT-R this time and not a 997TT is because modded Porsches are pretty much maxed out at high 9's at 145-149 in street trim. GT-R's however, are one the best big-power platforms available...and are already at a much higher level wrt absolute straight-line performance than Porsches are even though they've only been available for 3 years. Not only that, but if you want a dual-clutch tranny that can hold real power...the only practical option is the GT-R. Unfortunately, Porsche's PDK is ridiculously weak from the factory and not even upgradeable at this time. So chalk something else up for the GT-R: Absolute moddability.

If I wanted a dedicated road-course car, I'd get a GT3 RS. But for an all-around car that does everything well, the GT-R is very hard to beat.

I'm still a huge Porsche fan and always will be, but I'm also smart enough to realize that 911's have their limitations and in certain ways are simply inferior to the $90k Nissan.

 

Holy crap! A real car 'Guy'!! What a breath of fresh air. Rep for you.

 

I think it was Nissan who classified as Porsche as the benchmark they wanted to beat in terms of the fastest. Since then, everyone has jumped on the bandwagon that Porsche WERE the fastest prior to the GTR. What most people fail to realize is that in the amateur race community is how a Porsche car comes from the factory 1) very be competitive track car, for a street car 2) strong reliability at a race tack/ and daily driver for everyday needs. Head to your local track day, and you will see what Porsche owners do in between session. They read a book, or sit in their lawn chairs. While everyone in the paddock is running crazy doing something to their vehicle because something is not right. I have gone to the track quite a lot, and I will say I have NEVER seen a Porsche car failed due to poor engineering. I have seen once a car from a sponsor here with 900 bhp or something of that nature, and it was having issues with aftermarket parts- other than that zippo. I remember I was having lunch with a college friend recently and he stated he went to the track and everyone had spare parts for everything, some to event put the whole car back together, the only exception was the Porsche owners. All they did is sit and chit chatted waiting for their next session.
The GTR excels in giving the opportunity to anyone to extract its near full handling potential for anyone who knows very little in terms of cornering. It makes driving easy. Just like we have a bunch of electronic items now days that takes away the finesse of experience in a field and lets anyone be good at something. The feature Porsche is offering with the GT2 and GT3 series is driver input. It is very difficult driving a 911 at the limit, I can count with 1 hand of the total amount of people I have across that can get extract 100% out of a 911, in my 6 years of going to the track. But learning that technique makes it so rewarding to a driver and when you have that technique, of which very very few people posses, I guarantee you, these drivers will make a GTR look silly in a road course. People say but a pro driver in X magazine with a GTR beat a 911. Well a pro driver means squat to me, I have beaten several and so have many of my close friends, whom race, and vise versa. 1) you can’t compare a car that comes from the factory setup for the track while Porsche doesn’t setup their cars for the track, not even the GT’s from the factory—and that’s how magazines test the cars. 2) I have been behind the scenes of TV/ Magazine’s and they like to stir things up as that’s what makes sales, and that’s all they care about is viewers/sales. Like the latest Best Motoring video a GTR beating a GT2RS YET, yet the GT2rs was driven by a incompetent driver who obviously doesn’t know how to drive 911’s nor was he shifting correctly, his best lap was over 2 seconds quicker given his lack luster ability as a driver yet, the GTR won. Really ? Does that really make sense?
The 997 Turbo has started the path of a GTR in terms of driving aids, and it does very well for itself. For a car that has 280lb front spring rates and less then 500lb spring rates for the rear vs. a GTR that has near 1000lb spring rates in all for corners, id say the Turbo is doing amazing. I have driven one, it is a very nice car but it is does not steer my blood(both the GTR and 997 TT mk2). The run flats that you speak of for the GTR, was a specially design tire for the vehicle, I don’t know why GTR owners make it sound like it’s an off the shelf tire. I can design a tire and say it’s a run flat but it has the grip level of an R comp tire, which means it has the compound of a sticky tire and a very stiff sidewall, hmmm sounds like a normal R comp tire to me- with run flat thrown their for marketing.


As for the GTR weight/ 'run flats' / less power being an obstacle, i find it comical how naive people can be. Our residents on renntrack have 997 c2s which are lapping just as fast at laguna seca then that pro driver supposely could squeeze out of a GT2RS. I give you a hint, it really dosen't come to that extra weight over a course of a 1 lap, but suspension setup + good tires, I can not stress that enough . If you setup the 2RS like our local residents at renntrack, that 2RS is easy high 2X's car around laguna seca.

 

Good post although I have to disagree on one point. I see EVERY type of car break down on track. I don't care what you bring to the track, if you're hammering on it, a weekend a month, 2 weekends a month, doing 4 30 minutes sessions where you're at redline constantly, stuff breaks. GTR's break, Porsches break, S2000's, BMW's... I've seen them all stranded at some point or another. I have invested 20% of the value of my car into just reliability mods for my Cayman S for track duty. I just got back from a weekend at the track with POC and I can say the number of cars towed away were in the double digit range. It's sort of funny, but I personally would prefer a 911 GT variant, or even my Cayman S over the GTR at the road course, because I enjoy "driving"... but would pick a GTR for high horsepower oll on racing over any Porsche because it's already been proven to be a superior platform for high horsepower.

 

I will concede to this but what I meant is a car failed at the track due to engineering. I will specify more, a car design for the track failed at the track due to engineering. I.E. GTR’s transmission over heating, brakes over heating etc. , only doing a few laps before they over heat FROM the factory. No Turbo/GT2/GT3 needs ‘aftermarket’ parts to make it perform consistently for a prolong period of time at the track. That weight that factor takes a pounding after 3-4 laps, when your brakes start to overheat and the tires start to grease up and the car’s mechanics start taking a beating.

 

I have to agree. You have good points. Porsche is the only car I ever had and that I ever seen, that can take the abuse of the track, over and over and over again.

Cars with more than 280k miles being track a few times a year, in it's stock engine and transmission. (996tt)
They are tanks. Of course they brake, of course they fail, but in a very lower rate compared to any other car.

 

The times, whether "crappy" or not, were the best they could produce in what were ideal conditions...track surface included. Incidentally i'm not aware of there being a test conducted on Australian soil where either car has broken the 11 second barrier? So if this has occurred over in the states then maybe your fuel or, the cars were allowed to advantage a better reaction start from the driver? Either way, you can rest assured that the tests conducted here are 100% kosher given they are under the very watchful eye of the officials....who are on top of the tricks and therefore, are perhaps much tougher than what you guys have? Anyway, i don't want to get into second guessing so, it "is" what it "is" so, try to accept it in good grace even though your preferred brand came off second best.

Re your comments on the "soul" or lack thereof: Don't agree that this remark comes from just Porsche owners, in fact to the contrary. Many Porsche owners acknowledge the remarkable ability of the GTR and the fantastic value it represents. The remark on its lack of soul 99.99% of the time comes from the Journos, testers and other hard core race drivers that pass their own comments at review time after driving the two. I am not aware that any of these guys own either of these cars although i'm quite sure they would be happy to own either from the remarks made in general impressions. You are being somewhat sensitive to this consistent remark (of lack of soul) and should accept it in good grace that it has come about purely as consequence of careful scrutiny and testing of the car by persons qualified to make that particular judgement. Perhaps if they weren't making a direct comparison to the driving experience between a 911 they may not have had the need to make that remark?

Suggesting people are making unfair criticism on intangibles is also emotive nonsense. Again, these impression were formed by persons well and truly qualified, and to suggest otherwise is just being brand protective and unrealistic. Is it a crime to call something for what it is?

 

Something told me my comments would stir the pot, which is what this thread was destined to do

I never said the GTR is a POS, just gave my opinion about where my money would go (and has gone). I've driven GTRs a few times. Impressive acceleration, nice Playstation graphics on the dash, but (to me) lacked the SOUL that other marques bring to the table. Maybe it's the way it sounds, or the turbo platform (I'd prefer a GT3 before a TT/GT2 type of guy). It just felt like a real, live video game...not a sports car. Maybe that's the marketing/media effect...who knows, who cares?

It was only AFTER I bought my first 997 did I come up with the perspective regarding paying that much for certain brands. When I mentioned to a few guys that have some good car backgrounds about how I considered the GTR, they all had the same responses: you were going to spend how much for WHAT? Almost everyone I talked to about it responded the same way...

Again, just a few people's opinions.

I spent more money on a car that isn't as fast, and I'm ok with that. I'm pretty sure I'll end up spending a lot less keeping my car on the road (insurance, maintenance, gas, etc) than a GTR. I grew up in a Porsche family and thankfully those genes were passed down to me.

But I tend to see a lot of GTR lovers spending a lot of effort to defend/justify their choice on cars, this thread is a good case in point. Of course, this is a Porsche forum...so I'll concede no real surprise there.

 

Apparently, with all of the words I've chosen... You've understood none of them. I'm having difficulty explaining things to you anymore.

Because, based on the words you've chosen you've seen nothing I've posted.

My preferred brand came in second? Of course it did. It was supposed to. The TTS is supposed to be superior to the GT-R in a straight line (even though neither car was designed to excel just in these areas). Again, please tell me where the shocker is. The target was never the TTS. Why compare the two? Why not throw in a Mustang V6 against a ZR-1 while we're at it?

You are not the only person who heard the soulless comments about the GT-R (even BEFORE it was released). Did you miss that part? I said BEFORE it was released. Which means, it's now (back then) the cool way to report on it (READ: DESCRIBED BY SO-CALLED JOURNALISTS - as you, for some reason had to point out, after I already made the comment). This discussion was already held, and I thought the rest of the world moved on from it (I'm hoping you did too, and you just responded to this crap for absolutely no reason whatsoever, as the reference to soul is baseless, hence my response - it was supposed to be sarcastic, and irrelevant - not a primary talking point by you or anyone else).

 

+1

and don't forget about the depreciation of the cars

I think that most of the people in this thread don't care about that but it's another strong point for the Porsche.

 

I noticed a similar trend when I ask about trading my 2007 997.1. I can get a new GTR for $15K or a new turbo S for $105K. In these troubled times, that $15K looks somewhat tempting.
However, for the $15K, I now have a corvette/mustang/honda-crowd low priced "bad-boy racer" that most anyone can afford (Whoopie), but for the $105K, I get a real world renown off the charts adult-oriented prestige sports car that bad boy racers just cannot afford which ain't bad for our turbo's long/short term image. Always such tough decisions

 

Wait what?

Please tell me how much a new 2009 GT-R costs, against what they sell for now, compared (percentage wise) to a 2009 911 Turbo.

Maybe my numbers are off, I still see 2009 GT-R's being sold for around $65 - $70k (new, they were around $74k fully loaded (with its one option).

 

So based on price, the Porsche is better? I agree.

But please, link to this $15k GT-R. I could have purchased 5 of them for what I got ripped for (doesn't make me look too smart, I should have shopped around).

Anyway, people are paying $95k +taxes (some over $100k because of a markup that still exists after 3 years). I know some people can only afford a $100k car, but you can afford a $105k car, so that's cool.

 

Cool position...

But what do you base your cost numbers on for the GT-R vs the 911 for maintenance? Just curious what your breakdown is... (Have you factored in the $60k initial cost difference?)

(I realize this is completely off-topic and irrelevant, so if you don't want to answer, I understand - I'm just curious because it was brought up)

And I also understand the position about how people don't want to spend money on a certain type of car. I had the same response when I was looking at an Audi R8, and Chevy Corvette ZR-1 (and my bro-in-law's neighbor - who has a C2S said the same thing about a 911 Turbo), and his cousin who sells Porsches... You wanna spend HOW much on a Chevy/Audi/Porsche?

But when it came to the Nissan, I kept on hearing - that's quite a deal. I guess it depends on who you ask. I mean, people left and right (even on here) would call the GT-R a relative bargain (wasn't it even posted here on this thread?).