Buying a set of Hankook's tomorrow Great tire for the price

 

anyone gone from hankooks to super sports or vice versa?

 

I tried the V12's...not a good fit for me...

 

Care to elaborate?

 

The super sports are a little louder than the ps2 (at least that is what i discovered from throwing them on a bmw). i am running the r compound cup tire at the moment on the pcar and will be swapping them out for something new.

 

This would be true, if Michelin were the only N spec tire manufacturer, and PS2's were the only N spec tire available. They aren't. In not selling a set of PSS's, Michelin potentially loses the business to Pirelli or Bridgestone's "N spec" offerings. Why might Michelin be willing to take that risk? Well, I'm sure they sell a helluva lot more tires being a "recommended and approved" manufacturer with an OEM relationship, than they would if such a relationship were rescinded.




They may tweak the compound, true - but my admittedly-amateurish opinion is that more tweaking is probably done for optimizing the load ratings and sidewall rigidity of an N spec model. 911 variants are somewhat unique in the automotive jungle, with their light front and ***-heavy rear. An optimized offering would likely account for those characteristics.

As for "misleading the general public" - well, misleading's a strong word, but they certainly have a gain to consider, if one considers the intermediate-longer term, big picture relationship. djben hits on it below:


Even if the contract didn't include such a clause - Michelin has a vested business interest in remaining an OE supplier to Porsche, and as such would be wise to avoid biting the hand that feeds them. It's not rocket science.

 

Rep points, they have been given.

 

[QUOTE=c32AMG-DTM;3286758]Wel duh....of course they aren't. I fail to see your point....that is if there is one. There are other manufacturers than Michelin which have met Porsche's design criteria however we are talking about specifically Michelin here (PSS and PS2). But OK, lets look beyond Michelin. Now why would any manufacturer that has met Porsche's design criteria recommend other tires in their ranges for the car when they know which is the best suited for the car? That WOULD be giving bad advice. Particularly when they have either N or non N to offer. Why some of you want to go on.... and on...and on.... conjuring up theories why this manufacturer does this or that is laughable. You've been watching too many Hitchc0ck movies. Of course it is not in any manufacturers interest to recommend a tire which they know is clearly not specifically designed for the car to the same degree as the tires which they have in their range that have been specifically designed for the car. I mean...Hellooo.

If Michelin loses a tire deal to Pirelli or vice versa thats business. They both have N and non N spec in their range so what's your point? You surely don't honestly think one should sell more tires than the other when they have both to offer? And of course it's in any tire manufacturer's interest to meet Porsche's design criteria otherwise they won't be selling as many tires for that brand of car as the manufacturer that has. Again i fail to see your point. It's neither any of these manufacturers problem if certain owners choose to later buy non N spec tires. Again, all they can do is give the right advice in hope people will take notice. Where they have N and non N, if certain owners want to still go out and convince themselves they somehow know better than Porsche or the manufacturer (themselves) that has designed and manufactured the tires for the car by buying non N when N are available in that brand, then the decision is out of their hands...beyond their control. As i keep maintaining, "it's a free world". No one is holding a gun to anyones head to do anything they don't want to do.

Opining over what Porsche or a respective N tire manufacturer may or may not have done is neither here nor there in the grand scheme of things. As i said earlier. The lines have been drawn clearly in the sand in so far as what tires are best suited for the car by these manufacturers. But the choice is yours....however, as i said earlier don't have a lend of yourselves in the process that either manufacturer (Porsche or the tire manufacturer) would agree with a decision to use anything other than what was best suited to the car.


djben hits on nothing but fantasy. He offers nothing but pure speculation of his own without anything to back it up.

Strong, weak, call it what you will, but misleading IS misleading. A tire manufacturer that advises a user to use/purchase a tire that is not designed for the car, saying it is good or better than their tire which was designed for the car (by both car and tire manufacturer) would be bad advice (deceptive/misleading conduct)....end of story.....particularly when they have a tire in their range that has been. That is why they aren't "misleading" the general public into thinking otherwise. But the general public is always entitled to do what they want. As i said "its a free world". FWIW, from my own lifetime experience in the automotive component game, i have found good advice is often given but rarely taken. That is mainly why Warranty Depts and Customer Service departments are so busy (including our own). But that doesn't mean good advice shouldn't be given as it's a manufacturer's responsibility to advise any purchaser what product is best suited for the intended purpose, as is it the vendors responsibility as well.

You guys are cracking me up. You're clutching at straws . Just buy what you want to buy and be done with it and spare all the palaver that you (somehow) know better or more than what the makers had in mind.

What i also find astonishing is how some folks can afford to buy the car but not the tires. Maybe things work differently over in the states where these cars are so affordable by basically all and sundry and consumables such as tires become an i$$ue at a later point in the ownership. Either way, good luck with whatever decisions some of you arrive at. It is after all a free world thankfully.

Edit : johnw. WTFRU? ...laughing mfao i bet .

.

 

speed21, the sentence above summarizes the situation well I think.

You have an observation (agreement that most would be hard-pressed to notice any difference between similar tires, N vs. non-N), and a subsequent conclusion (so, why not buy the N, outside saving a few pennies).

Others make the same observation (hard-pressed to notice any difference whatsoever), so they draw a different conclusion (why throw away money on N, if there's no discernable difference).

You acknowledge that it's a free world to do as we please - I agree.

Not sure what the pricing is there in AUS, but there's about a 40-50% premium here when going from what are IMHO reputable UHP or Max P summer tires (Conti, Bridgestone, Yoko, etc.) to one of the limited few choices of an N-spec variant. Your "pennies" dismissal trivializes a significant percentage difference for these consumables. For what might be (probably is) an indistinguishable difference for the operator.

Tires are inherent compromises. Wet traction, dry traction, NVH, responsiveness, mileage, etc etc. Tires are designed and engineered to a target-market and specific objective. Tire technology continuously improves, marching ever forward.

I'll leave you with a thought to consider: everything I've read on the topic suggests that, apples to apples, the regular PSS is a superior tire to the regular PS2. Which, frankly, just makes common sense.

So, here's the thing - just because Michelin hasn't released an N spec PSS, doesn't mean that the regular PSS isn't already an improvement from an N spec PS2. Maybe an N spec PSS will be better still... but the PSS might already be a better performing option. And, yes, Michelin might have perfectly valid and understandable reasons to point Porsche owners to only use N spec products.

My 996TT is currently riding on N spec Bridgestone S-02 A's... but I'm not naive to assume that just because they're N spec, they're unequivocally superior-performing tires to the latest and greatest S-04 PPs.

 

[QUOTE=speed21;3286987]Your ignorance and contradictions are nothing short of astonishing. I honestly feel like I may be falling for a troll here.

I know I sarcastically said be more snooty with your followup responses, but you're off the charts on the condescending-***-o-meter.

You have made several comments now that are signs of pure delusion. I'm not sure if you are off your medication but please, get back on it before a mod bans you.

Anyway, go ahead, don't take my advice and press REPLY. Say some things that contradict earlier statements, like how Porsche designed the car for a tire SO specific it needs to be made of a unique compound, yet several manufacturers have approved N-Spec tires of obviously different compounds and performance characteristics (have you READ your own posts back to yourself???), ramble a bit to try to cover up your backpedaling, throw in a bunch of smiley emoticons, tell us all we're ignorant fools for not wanting to pay a premium for what we believe are less capable tires, then wrap it all up with 'its a free world!'.

I'll admit I probably shouldn't even be responding like everyone else who has read your posts and simply moved on, but I couldn't resist

 

Thanks DTM for understanding one of the core points of my posts! One could simplify it further that the main decision making process is based purely on $ given 99% of Porsche drivers would not possess the driving skills to extract the potential of the 911 car even with Porsche's current selection of N rated tires. My core point was neither Porsche or Michelin recommend fitment of the current non N rated PSS for reasons as explained. Neither company has said you cannot fit the PSS, but they don't recommend it for obvious reasons. Tire performance between the PS2 and PSS is a separate topic as i pointed out earlier. Performance comparisons often go beyond track work given the named tires are essentially street type...not R or slick. Incidentally, I note the performance test between these tires (PSS, PS2) was (to my knowledge) not conducted on a Porsche. Please correct me if i am wrong. We all know PS2 is also a generic tire/tread design suitable for many applications and it's only the N rated PS2 variant that was specifically designated by the associated Manufacturers to be best suited to the Porsche. I would agree it stands to reason a later designed tire should by rights succeed the earlier model but its performance on each individual car is bound to vary....no question. As an example, using your assumed changes in the N design tires which (may) accommodate (as you pointed out) things like the front/rear weight bias and the dramatic difference in tire widths from front to rear (side wall design and strength) then it's fair to say Porsche didn't get into bed with certain tire manufacturers purely just to make a tire more expensive than a non N tire of the same tread design. However, at the end of the day, as most drivers would be flat out extracting either car or tire potential, where dollars become important things like N and non N may not mean a great deal to the more budget oriented. To me, if you can afford the car then......

[quote=djben;3287086]djben you have given me absolutely no reason (nor anyone else here i imagine) to take you seriously least of all take your advice on anything. I mean how could anyone sensible given your fanciful accounts and retorts? Directing derogatory and personal comments about being on medications, trolling, casting pearl before swine and the like is unwarranted, offensive and is nothing more than a childish and pathetic attempt to divert attention away from my calling you out for blatantly fantasising. You speak of delusion . You truly need to get a grip. If others have chosen not to comment on my posts it would be simply because they understood the content of my posts and, take no issue with me pointing out what the current facts are surrounding both manufacturers positions and the likes. However, once again in a bid to excuse yourself from the fracase you effectively created you (again) resort to speculation and self indulgent fantasy that all members share your sentiments against me as well. In so far as insinuating Mods should ban me for posting up facts relevant to the OP whilst pointing out your misleading incorrect nonsensical fantasy, you really must underestimate the intelligence of the Mods and many other members here....amongst other things. You on the other hand do however need to check yourself as you will get called out if you continue your BS....no question. Your remarks toward me are out of order and, i believe in breach of forum guidelines.

Edit: Btw I received your neg rep....to be expected coming from you....Mr 29 y/o w 74 posts

 

To drive around, any crap of tire will be enough. It only complicates when the rpms and temps go up for a quite long period. No other car has the exhaust headers and turbos so close of the tires like our cars. And in case of accident the insurance can claim your fault due to non approved tires. I wrecked a Boxster S in the autobahn due to a rear tire blowout at 170mph. It had Bridgestone Potenza y-speed rated (186mph) with just 2k miles, but it wasn't N-rated. Since then i only use N-rated tires in my car. Now it is your car, your choice.

 

Yes i hear what you are saying Tiago. I hear stories insurers insure porsches without the correct N tires.. As i tried to point out earlier, why impose negatives such as insurance issues and the likes. Insurers words become water when a claim is made....particularly a big one. If they can't put it in writing for you from the big boss then it aint really covered at all.

 

Surveying all the comments, looks like two PS2 (N2) on the back matched up with my little worn PS2 (N1)s on front is a better choice than PSS tires at all 4-corners. Two rear N2s same price as four PSSs for front and rear.

 

Your call....but i believe you are on the right track personally.

What many are overlooking is the technical aspect, and appear far more focused on the price and the (supposed) better performance of the PSS, due to the findings of a professional test conducted between the two Michelin variants. Firstly no one has stepped forward to confirm or deny the professional test was conducted on a Porsche 911 car mindful the PS2 is also available in a generic non N form as well. I would agree that it stands to reason that a later tread/compound design should outperform (in a high speed cornering context) than its predecessor. Its a bit like saying 996 is better than 997 and so forth. Manufacturers generally don't make things "worse". However, where the performance aspect is concerned confirmation that the test was done on a 911 is relevant to the outcome on that car as the 911 is a special car when you look at the rear weight bias over the rear axle and, the dramatic differences in tire widths front to rear. Now if the comparison test was not done on a 911 then its not an open and shut case on the (cornering speed) performance aspect. Needless to say, even if the test was confirmed as being conducted on the 911 it still wouldn't alter the technical aspects associated to the design and manufacture of the N spec tire for the 911 which Porsche and Michelin deemed necessary for the cars unusual chassis (in comparison to front engined or mid mount cars).

Going back over the thread i also wish to answer certain assertions directed at me by djben suggesting that as i had already altered my own car by installing an aftermarket ECU tune, wheels, exhaust, etc... asserting that my questioning the use of non N rated tires on the 911 car was questionable given my own modifications. Unfortunately what djben has failed to recognise is that the Aftermarket tune, EP exhaust and RF67 wheels and other AM items were ALL custom designed specifically for the 997TT car....unlike the non N rated PSS tires which were NOT designed (by the Manufacturer) for the 911 car, instead were manufactured as a generic tire for cars with a far different chassis layout than a 911. Michelin also specifically advising against their use on a 911. On the other hand, Protomotive, Champion, Europipe specifically recommend the use of their products as they were specifically designed, tested, developed and manufactured specifically for the car. So there is a MAJOR difference. Just wanted to point that fact out.

Hi Can. I also wanted to pass comment with regard to your suspension changes to Bilstein coil overs...which you said changed the game for both car and tires. I know how you like the technical aspect....as i do also . There is a technical aspect here that has not been realised in your post....can you believe it!! . You are normally very thorough Can . The Bilstein coil over suspension and other associated suspension components you have had expertly fitted to your car were also specifically designed for your 997tt car and, it was not as if these components were generic or designed to fit any other brand of car without major alterations. Correct? One thing that wasn't changed as a consequence of these AM suspension modifications however was the weight bias of the Porsche 911 chassis or, the rim widths front to rear. Therefore, the N spec designed tire would always provide the chassis dynamics a higher performance as per Porsche's initiative with the tire companies to design the N spec tire specifically with the cars nuances in mind. You will note how in the evolution cycle of the 911 car how car has reportedly steadily become more neutral in terms of its handling, which has come about by the constant development of the suspension, wheels and tires. So, by anyone dismissing the importance of using the correct N tires for the car is in a way saying Porsche and Michelin's (and the other premium N tire manufacturers) design efforts were fruitless and meaningless. It may not be so important to use an N spec on a mid mount boxer or ferrari, R8, so on so forth, but the 911 does have that controversial chassis design and you can't escape that fact. Sorry for the rant but i felt it important that the technical aspect be given fair consideration regardless of "performance" outcomes plus performance applies to a lot of things where a tire is concerned.....wear, ride, noise, durability at the limit, safety and so on....and not just cornering speed at the cars limit. Just saying and, if I've missed anything out here let me know.