Impressive Emre! Shifts really quick. Pls send me a PM for pricing.

 

Didn't your tip fail once already after you had it built?

 

good observation Skeet- my torque converter had pushed the bearing in on the transmission oil pump. A wear and tear issue of 30k on a tiptronic, and countless power break launches from a dig. While that caused a slight oil leak, I had to separate the oil pump in the trans (which required all the clutch packs out) and my stock torque converter was fine- I just had it ported and polished with a raise torque converter. So technically it was not Renntech's fault, nor my techs fault- I looked at the markings on it from metal to metal- no fingers pointed!

Many companys with upgraded tiptronic trans packages dont upgrade the torque converter but it is a good mod IMO.

 

how much is the kit

 

I'm glad you answered this here as you missed my question in the Moscow thread. What failed with the converter or was it installed wrong? You sound content, but that seems like an odd failure. Have you driven it with the raised stall converter? If so, I'd like to hear your impressions. Thanks.

Do you have 1/4 mile times? Nice car. :-)

John H

 

I apologize John, nothing exactly failed with the torque converter- because when I had the trans separated from the motor, with the torque converter out ; clear as day I saw the pump that the torque converter slides into was pushed in; in my case this happened because of a large amount of heat through a couple hard launches and a bunch of pulls through low gears. It also happened on one of the hottest days of the summer 105+ degrees (150mile drive) caused a slight light.

To fix this problem, I went to the mercedes dealer and got a transmission oil pump for a 722.xx MB trans, and had my local trans shop do the job since Renntech is all the way down in FL and I did not want my DD out of commission for weeks waiting for it to freight ship down to FL.

Once my new pump was installed, I had pro-torque check the overall height and dimensions of my stock torque converter to see if there was any visible damage- which there was; just a slight metal stress mark from a bearing in the oil pump- While it was at their shop getting polished , he also told me he could raise the stall slightly- the upgraded torque converter was $800 and he had it done for me in 2 days.

Simply a wear and tear issue of a trans; no fingers were pointed to my tech nor Renntech-

To get a better understanding of the 722. trans- take a peak at the diagram I dug up to diagnose my trans problem.

#510-530 relate to the trans oil pump that I am talking about, and the slight visible marks on the torque converter tips are from the bearings 70-34

http://www.ganzeboom.net/images1/gan...edes/722.6.pdf

Im no expert at torque converters but the difference in driving feels like the gear gets engaged higher in the RPM- its really hard to explain and I hope some one can elaborate the benefits of an upgraded torque converter; but in my car it feels like the gear is engaged higher in the RPM and the boost is already being made so the car takes off out of the hole from a dig like an ANIMAL!

 

If your transmission heated up to the extent of warping metal on the converter, it would have burned your fluid and destroyed your clutch packs. I would blame it on a faulty installation, but you're nicer than me. :-)

I've run aftermarket raised stall/race converters for over a decade on turbos albeit not a 997TT, so I can provide some info for you.

Read these articles first:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...converter2.htm

http://peugeot.mainspot.net/tips/torque_converter.htm

A higher [than stock] stall converter has its positives and its negatives. A raised stall converter from one shop will differ from another shop. They raised the stall of your stock converter instead of creating an entirely new converter which isn't the best option, but it might be the only option in this case. This usually just involves modifying the stator. Pro-torque are well known, but they're more generic level instead of higher end like Neil Chance. Switzer, TPC, Champion or another well known shop should have them or another high-end company create a converter for the tip. They won't do "raise the stall" type work.

Positives:
The car will flash or powerbrake to a higher rpm before the power band begins. On a turbocharged vehicle, this will allow you to launch at a higher rpm under more boost.

Negatives:
The process that allows you to power-brake higher also increases the slipping of the converter throughout the entire power-band. So while your ET will decrease, unless your turbos have an extremely high boost threshold [lag] your MPH will decrease as well. This increased slipping will also create even more heat. If your stall is too high [converter too loose] and your torque "too high", you can "blow through" the converter and not go anywhere - very similar to a slipping clutch.

I've never liked the slipping feeling and the car revving much higher before it went forward while daily driving, but it's very beneficial on the drag strip. At light throttle cruising speeds on the highway, the converter will lock up and be no different than stock. With VTG turbos, if the car was strictly a street car with no intentions of drag racing, I'd never add a higher stall converter.

It's essential that you add an external transmission cooler and monitor your trans fluid temps. I admit to not always doing the later, but I'm overly cautious to allow it to cool down never doing back to back passes or repeated high speed passes. Road-coursing is not compatible with a high stall converter.

How much was your stall speed raised? It's the highest rpm you can power-brake to without your car moving forward or in the case of a rwd setup spinning the tires. Did you measure the power-braking boost before and after? Have you noticed any top end loss or decrease in around town drive-ability? Please describe these launches before and after in more detail. :-)

John H

 

So for the USA, we have Renntech, Switzer, and I believe Champion as well. Renntech gives some info in their webpage, but Switzer and Champion don't provide any details of their tip upgrade. The secrecy only convinces to go with the lower priced option if it's unknown what is upgraded. Maybe they're all outsourced to the same tranny shop? I've seen that practice many times before. Kudos to Emre for his explanation in this thread, but unless I'm deployed to Afghanistan [like now] I'm not anywhere near Turkey.

Be good to have information on their TCU upgrades as well. All this info isn't proprietary. I remember when the Supra tuners used to act this way in the 90s and not until that practice stopped, did the performance potential of the platform skyrocket. The original companies holding onto all details and high prices are unknowns now while shops that gave technical descriptions of their products and realistic prices became the new throne holders - for a market much smaller than this one.

John H

 

Champion uses Renntec but does the TCU tuning stuff themselves..big improvement

 

I ve seen and tested Esmotor's Tiptronic Upgrade.

Esmotor initially designed this kit and sold to various tuners, worldwide.

John, your experience may be huge but you have not worked on 997TT tip yet. Did you?

These Esmotor people have the 60-130 mph world record. And with their own kit.

Turkey, you can import a kit from Turkey with DHL and takes 2 days.

Esmotor sold tip kits to Russia, Italy, UAE, Saudi Arabia, USA....I dont keep their records, I read here.

6 highly modded 997TTs are running stong here in Istanbul with esmotor upgrade.

Do not forget these Esmotor team broke the world tiptronic 60-130 mph. Thats achievemnent, not a piece of cake.

So anyone who wants to mod the 997 tip close your eyes and go the source, Emre Esmotor. Or let your tranny suffer and slip

 

no need for so much line spacing ...

I had IPT Transmission in New Jersey do my 996TT tiptronic. They upgrade every gear (except R), rebuild the VB and use blue top solenoids. They also use a ceramic clutch for the torque converter and set it to whatever I wanted (we did ~3,300RPM...).

So far it has worked well. Unfortunately, the tuning ability of the TCU is much better in the 997 than the 996

 

So with Switzer using Esmotors [deleted from M3's post] and Champion using Renntec, there seems to be only two actual Tip builders.

Doubtful Champion does any TCU tuning as they use GIAC for DME tuning. It would be good to see if there is more than one TCU tuning source or they're all the same. If not, what are the differences? Not much information out there on re-tuned TCUs to make an informed purchase.

John H

 

I had my tip upgraded by MKB when some of the mentioned tuners were in a search of how to build their transmit ion.

I also had my TCU done about two years ago from Protomoive.
My opinion is TCU and ECU should be done by the same tuner. TCU offers harder/quicker shifts, but ECU and TCU should work together

 

hi all i think emre kit for the gearbox is very good my friend is yusfe he fit emre kit and his care is very fast i like his work and soon im ganna have the kit for my gearbox

 

We have developed my tiptronic kit together with Switzer.

Concerning TCU upgrade; i'm making TCU tuning myself since 2 months.

Most of the TCU upgrade on the market are set to 1000nm.

The gearbox is limited to 1300nm by Mercedes, so i have set mine to 1250nm.

Regards,
Emre