Well speed21, I'm no professional racing driver but I've been doing track days/karting for over ten years so I'm probably a better driver than your average Joe. And while I'm sure I could take the TT around tracks faster than the Cayman, it doesn't mean that the car feels bettr to drive. In terms of pure driving feel, the Cayman S/R is superior to the TT.

In my opinion TT feels like a GT car rather than a Sportscar. The suspension response at the limit leave a lot to be desired, with under/over characteristics that come from its very soft setup. It definitely feels like it's setup more for cruising highways/autobahn than carving up the curves.

 

I COMPLETE agree. I would go for the GTS or Cayman S/R as a track car. Turbo is nice for daily driving.

 

I concur 100%. In fact I just sold my brand new '11 TTS and was blessed to recently become the proud owner of a true Ruf Vin 3400k. Oh my, what a car... It kills every 911 I've ever had in every way and it is fast too, very fast. In fact "seat of pants" wise it puts a much bigger smile on my face than the TTS ever did. I've only had it a few days, will post pics and more thoughts soon. The dyno on this car showed over 450hp at 7K with over 360 pounds of torque, way more than what was published. I was concerned I would be disappointed until I got behind the wheel. From 5500 to 7500 this thing will flat get your attention. Handling? No contest whatsoever, kills any of my old cars even with modded suspensions. Ruf knows what they're doing, big time respect for them. I truly feel it's the coolest car I've ever owned.

I'm a happy guy

Here's a link to a few pics, will post more when I get a chance to take them.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater

 

I had a 2008 Cayman S and really loved the car. I had tracked the car and also raced a Cayman S in Alabama at the Porsche Driving School. Definitely a fantastic car but I also tracked a turbo and raced it. And at the end of the day I realized I wanted a 2010 turbo. I also kind of fell out of love with the look of the Cayman. So for a variety of reasons it had to go. One of them being I didn't have room for it with my turbo and GT3RS. I miss the Cayman but not that much. Would never go back though love my turbo and GT3RS. Just superb cars.

 

Wow, that sounds like an incredible car! Can't wait to see more pics!

 

Can't wait tonsee photos! Sounds awesome!

 

A TT will never have the same feel as a Cayman R (just look at the weight variation) and to be able to say which one is superior you need to look at what the intended purpose is going to be.

As i said earlier, one must be schooled to properly understand the dynamics of the 911 chassis....end of story. You could do 1000 track days in a go cart or cayman or any other mid or front mount engine'd car for that matter and it still wouldn't change a thing. The 911 chassis demands a level of commitment from the driver not normally required for cars with different engine layouts and you need to understand that. The same thing goes with revising the alignment settings and replacing the fluids for synthetic if the intention is to push the TT hard at the track on the odd day out or if driven regularly on the street like a maniac (not sure where you could regularly do that on the street these days but anyway....). Just these small changes to the TT will make enough of a difference when used in those situations no question.. Any motoring enthusiast/track day junkie would know that where track work is concerned there is simply no substituting a lighter chassis and the lighter the better. This is where Porsche excels in being able to produce a range of cars for specific purposes depending upon driver requirements. Take for example the Cayman R you speak of. Certainly not the best car to use out of Porsche's line up as a daily driver, but great on the track. Same goes with Porsche's GT 2 and 3 car line up. Sure they are now behaved well enough to be driven on the road but as a DD there are better Porsches to be in if that is the primary purpose. The TT is certainly a thoroughbred Sportscar but again there are better track focussed cars out of Porsche's product line up. It's simply a matter for one to decide what their personal requirement is and then select the right arrow out of the Porsches quiver. No point buying something then moaning about assumed inadequacies after the event. I can never understand that.

Exactly!
Again the word track car is being quoted here and on that point i would agree with you. Although in saying that i'd choose the GT3 RS any day of the week out of either of those cars if track was the order of the day....but again you need schooling first on how to get the potential out of the chassis. And if ones intention is to use the car predominately for track then surely its better to select the right car isn't it?..ie horses for courses. However if track days are only going to be 10 or less out of the 365 then it doesn't make a great deal of sense (or logic) buggerizing around turning something into something else and then having the car relegated from its DD duties in the process as it is no longer ideally suited to DD use...ie no longer sufficiently comfortable for all DD occasions. That's just crazy.

 

You're a funny guy. I've been to multiple racing schools as well. Buuuut I'm sure you're going to tell me next that my schooling is inadequate and I must be a honed, full-fledged racer to appreciate and extract the performance out of the magical 911.

 

Well, the 911 is a magical car once you understand how to use it properly. And just saying if you haven't yet learned to specifically get the best out of a 911 chassis then it's certainly a worthwhile exercise. No ones talking about the need to be a fully fledged racer here. And for that matter it's a sad reality there are guys that can go to 100 schools and yet still couldn't drive a hot knife through butter. No offence, but to be honest i'm still not sure why you even bought the TT given your expectations. Surely you drove this car before you bought it??? And if so then why did you buy it if it's so disappointing vs what you had? Surely an experienced driver such as yourself would have identified these issues in the drive? Or did you just drive it around the block and write a cheque, handing over that beloved Cayman R. Assuming (going by your first post) its use was primarily intended for street then you're in the right car. Btw re your issues, have you bothered to look at correcting the exhaust sound to your liking? You said that was a problem for you vs your previous car. Have you put synthetic fluids into the brake system? Realigned the car at all? Even a tune maybe? 99.99% seem to wind up doing that if for nothing else to feed the power addiction. But screw with the ride when the car was designed by Porsche to be the everyday super car? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me when the car delivers 99.999% in DD situations and, is not too shabby on the odd track day either. No hard feelings but you're quite a funny guy too.

 

Thanks - I learned from others here and am just sharing the info.
The wheels are HRE P40 - very likely HRE's all time best seller once all is said and done. More importantly LOL, I am owner of the very first set in the world. (Really.)

I got a chuckle out of the "boring Turbo for doctors" comment too - I think poster was just kidding. The one I read most often is "boring Turbo for orthodontist" though. No flame dentist friends, kidding also.

Paul and spf4000 - you are both right! Like everything we do to our cars, personal preferences dictate what we think and there is no "wrong" choice. This is why I am so careful to never say what I have in my car is the only way.
On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being Lexus SUV (soft ride, no handling) and 10 being GT3 (great handling, stiff ride), the Turbo is about say 4-5 and Cayman say 6-7, some of us like to be at 4, some at 6. The great thing about Porsche is there is always a choice.

 

Regarding suspension discussion, not for spf4000 since he seems to already know, but in case anyone is interested: there is a reason I wrote the solution is to stiffen chassis with stiffer springs. This is the only way to control weight transfer, an all important consideration in motorsports.

Weight transfer could be side to side (roll stiffness), or front to back (squat with acceleration, dive with braking). It is nearly always bad because it implies loss of traction of the wheels involved, and of course shifting of mass in a fast moving object (never good). For example, when your car squats, you have less steering because of less traction in front wheels (partly why the car understeers/pushes in corner if you accelerate too early), when your car dives, you have less traction and braking of the rear wheels, etc.
BTW weight transfer is not always bad and professional drivers use it to their advantage. The most prominent example? Acceleration out of corner, where rear wheel traction is helpful and weight on the rear therefore is beneficial.

Note that improving weight transfer is appreciated by everyone at all speed, not just all out driving. You don't have to be a professional driver to appreciate this. You could easily feel the difference between a VW GTI and VW non-GTI for this reason: the 2 cars are different in a number of ways, but the most important difference is what? GTI has siffer suspension tuning.

What does this have to do with anything: excessive weight transfer, objectively slows car down in corner, and subjectively, makes the car feel boring for some people (slumbering, sloppy). This I believe is why so many people sold Turbo and switch to GT3, etc. Of course, it's always a tradeoff: the Turbo loses in handling, but gains in ride comfort.
As always, anyone here please correct me as needed. I am just a humble amateur driver.

 

http://www.drivingfast.net/track/tra...#axzz1XeYlw3MZ

Another article on weight transfer and other driving skills.

 

Oh man, I'm a dentist and my wife is an orthodontist. I'm gonna need to sell the Turbo now and get a proper car...though I won't understand or appreciate driving it at all

What's worse is that I also have a Cayenne TT. If that's not posing then I don't know what is!!

 

The wife and I are both physicians and I have no issue with the TT. I think it represents everything I want in a supercar for the streets.... and it something I won't mind my patients seeing me in. An Italian pedigree would be too much flash and look bad/send the wong message

 

Exactly!
Let me state this, when you know what you're doing on a track, the stock 911tt is better suited for faster times even on short tight circuits than any caymen - sorry, but it's true. I've had a RUF 3400S for many years prior to my 997tt and it was a blast, sharp handling and yes, that thing was like glue on the road. However the sharpens of the car is mostly accomplished due to the lack of power... it has a hard time over powering the driver... you know the saying "it's more fun driving a slow car fast". Well that's pretty much it. Double the power on the 3400s and that car would be skating around the track like a retired Russian ballerina on her way to an AA meeting. It would for sure need some serious suspension work to keep it under control.

That said, the first thing I did when I picked my 997tt, was change out the suspension. So I hear you there - stock feel is soft. Which is what I would recommend you do ASAP. You'll never look back.
And on that note maybe upgrade your rubber... not sure what you're running now but that could also be contributing to the twitchiness.
...else you could always sell your tt and buy two Caymen R's