OMG, are you serious... LOL read my post above.
Although I had the original RUF3400S - it can't be put in the same league as the 997TT
Sorry, disagree with you completely! That said, I've heard some shady story's about some of RUF's principles - like completely disconnecting the check engine light on some of their models because it was constantly coming on... (additionally, Alois has developed a bad rep locally - from very shady business operating principles).
I had a number of issues with mine car too. Proceed with caution.
Hence my switch to using TechArt as my tuner.

 

I am using LFC911Kop2's above post/quote, which surprisingly went un-noticed as the perfect situation. Now here is a member that knows how to enjoy. A GT3RS and a 2010 TT. Wow! Now that is the best of both worlds..

Can is your car a regular DD? I bet it is not. I recall fitting coilovers to my last Porsche DD and it soon became relegated to being a toy....to be driven for short periods only and, usually on my own. I was always taking another car out. Why? The loss of ride comfort made it no longer suitable for the 99% of D driving situations and nobody like being in it anymore. I used to take it to the Hunter valley for the weekend...that finished abruptly. Even my daughter fell out of love with the jiggy ride on the very short trip to school. So.. it became dads (useless) toy. At times it can be an empty ride without passengers. I agree everyone has preferences. But when i look back over the mods i've done in my time, (for me) removing the comfort out of a car was unquestionably a bad bad move. Sure, the P car looked great being that extra bit lower to the ground... but it scraped on every damn thing. So I could no longer drive it to every where i used to go as i got tired of having to avoid scraping on the things that prior too were not such an issue. I couldnt even sell the car with the coilovers in so they came back out, stock suspension back in, and when i then drove the car for its last run i looked back over the wasted opportunities..... Not doing that again. The turbo is great (in fact perfect) just the way it is. If i want a firmer ride with less roll it's just the push of the sports button. If i want to cruise with the flow, i hit the normal button. If there is a super smooth stretch of quiet road where i can open her up....its sports. If it's a stretch of open blacktop with undulations and irregularities, its normal mode again, and power down haul *** because she'll eat up the lumps and humps without skitting all over the place. Yes, Lifes good.

LFC91Kops2 has got the right idea. The right car for all occassions.

PS. The problem stiffening the chassis on a 997tt is the road is not billiard table smooth everywhere. Coilovers also make the suspension quite noisey so unless you remove the helper springs and just have a special single coil fitted you get more noise. Im quite sure a lot of guys like myself obviously go into these mods blinded by the thinking life will be so much grander. However, the grass is always greener the other side of the street....until you get there..

 

+1 couldnt agree with you more on that.

Yes. When i read that post i shook my head in misbelief as well. It just goes to show there are all sorts of personal preferences going on out there.

 

Shame on you for not doing your Homework first and then 8itching about your grade.

A TT can be amazing when set-up and done correctly.



Read the pdf link under my signature.

..." as my other car is a money pit"... How can you seriously say that? Aren't they all if you want more out of them...i.e. tracking/performance. And with all your "schooling" money pitting should be given, not unexpected.

 

Read for link. Interesting that they ditched the coil overs and went back to the H and R lowering spring set up. Even they commented how the uncompromising ride of the coil over set up did nothing for the car.

 

^^^And yet that was a team of professionals trying to set-up coil overs in a day at the track. At the end of the day they were able to yield quicker times with the springs, sway bars, shock tower brace, and drop links.

Lets just say my TT is no daily driver for a Doctor, Lawyer, or Dentist. For that matter, nor many.

 

Doesn't surprise me to read that. And if it's not a DD a little fiddle with the suspension could yield a result for putting down some faster times....ie: a set of GMG's springs, links and sways or something like that perhaps may be at least semi tolerable for street (I've heard good reviews on those). But coilovers?...unless Porsche supplied the car with them i'd need a hell of lot of convincing. I still recall my last experience with BSstein coil overs and my times were much the same as stock plus stock the car was more manageable and less stressful to punt hard particularly on irregular surfaces.

 

Hi Paul, yes I drive my car every day to work (and every chance I could). 35k on odometer. The Bilstein is *not* too stiff at all - matter of personal preference but I think I could make a reasonable comparison. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 say a Lexus and 10 a GT3, ***approximately*** stock Turbo is about 4-5, Cayman about 6-7, Bilstein is about 7.

I believe very strongly that there is something with your previous experience that makes it not applicable to the Turbo. Different car, different installation & settings (what exactly did you change and what were the height and other settings?) for one, second, I trust your impression of course but there is something not very right about what you've been mentioning (the seemingly huge stiffness increase). The only thing I don't know is the road surface of where you live, how bad it is. But on say LA road, something doesn't translate.
I think we are all "correct" (per. preference), but do pick out some trust worthy tuner and ask them in PM about what I wrote above. Tuner is afraid to chime in here but in PM they could give you a pretty decent comparison. Also do search for "Bilstein" on this forum. Not for everyone? yes, overbearing increased stiffness? no, for 99% of people.

 

Whatever guys, have your own opinions. All I can say is I've had a lot of Porsche's and I'm really enjoying this car. By the way, the 3400S is a dog compared to this car. There is a long ways between 330hp and 450hp. You ever driven a 3400K? Come on down and give it a shot, you'll see what I mean As for the "proceed with caution" I have a full 2-year transferrable warranty on the car and I'm not really worried about it. This is the most balanced car I've ever driven, period. And I had a brand new Boxster Spyder before this too. Until you've driven this car you have no idea what you're talking about.

OP, I agree with you completely and I can afford anything I want...

 

Now we are talking - yes if you are thinking GMG stiffer springs will help, you are correct. It's all the same principle - increased roll stiffness. Just some clarification:

1. The stiffness of the car is not determined by whether it's a coilover, or lowering spring. Both have springs (coilover is spring + matching improved damper); you could design lowering spring with such high spring rate that it's stiffer than a coilover. Now on GMG (not my first choice, but an excellent system nevertheless), the spring is progressive so that does help with comfort. A progressive spring of course has two rates, low initial rate, and high final rate; the soft initial rate is what softens the ride. But this takes us to another controversial topic, linear vs. progressive, that we could save for another day!
And definitely by the time you add sway bar and solid links, it's far from settled on the relative stiffness of GMG vs. other systems.
2. Changing to GMG spring, sway, and links is **far** from a little fiddling of suspension system! In fact each of these components make the system ever stiffer. I do expect the GMG car to be better and faster than stock - it also follows the law of physics. The primary way (not only, bur primary) to increase time on a race track, and for that matter anywhere w/ reasonable surface, is to reduce weight transfer, by increasing roll stiffness (up to a point, and the Turbo is far from that point).

Bilstein is OEM supply for Porsche 911's. It *is* as Porsche as could ever be and therefore among the best possible solutions for those - and only those - who want to stiffen the car. (My premise has always been that if someone likes the stock Turbo as is, nothing is wrong with that - personal pref.)

 

As an aside and theoretical whitepaper argument, the only independent test of the Ruf 3400K had it lapping AutoBild's Oschersleben test setup a full 2 seconds slower than a completely stock 1st gen 997TT. Essentially, a tuned Cayman was significantly slower than a completely stock 997TT.

In general, I do not spend my day comparing magazine test parameters...we could spend days arguing how Oschersleben has long straightaways that favor high HP cars, etc...It speaks volumes, however, that the general performance of a daily GT car is on par with its tuned mid engined brother.

As far as my personal track credentials, all I can tell you is that I lapped my local WalMart in 2:15 in a 2003 Camry...

 

Hi Bob,

Yea I may be off base in this thread. I'm really not talking about track times, I'm just talking about normal everyday "seat of pants" driving. The car is a blast, plenty of power everywhere. I never have felt a connection like this with any of my 911's before. The thing is stupid fast between 5500 and 7500. I don't think the OP was referring to "tracking" but I may have misread it.

 

Haven't read that article, but honestly, that's not surprising at all.

Ted - re. my comments, I didn't intend any disrespect at all. Simply voicing my opinion, and fully understand every one has their own preferences. It certainly wasn't my intention to come off strong - if that's how you read my comment.

On that note: I LOVE the look of the RK Spyder!!!
But, like I said, personally I just couldn't justify the sacrifice in power and the poor brand reputation (what I have been exposed too), over my 997TT.

Either way, I'm looking forward to those pics of course!

 

1) You quote Bilstein at 7 so that is stiff for a dd....well certainly for me anyway considering how taught they make the chassis + that level of stiffness sure does give the seat springs a work out. Its like all of a sudden the seats are doing the work of the suspension.

2) And re my general experience you could well be right that it may not be applicable to the turbo (or exactly the same)....don't know. I do know the guys that set that car up were no newbies in fitting Bilstein coil overs so i imagine all was in order....or as best it could be given the inadequacies within the bilstein package at that time i.e. creaky suspension and then there is that infamous rod issue where they have now amended the design. Hardly bodes for a well sorted package frankly *so I'm not sure if you could fairly say that just because Bilstien is OE to Porsche that the package is the same*. I don't see GT2's or 3's having these sorts of issues with the package Porsche's own engineers have developed. Those cars drive flawlessly....even if not the best DD's out of Porsches line up. Anyway...
And whilst it wasn't "all bad" on the car having the B/S C/O's, all in all the car was basically no longer suited to DD on many occasions as previously stated....so that said i can't see myself queuing up to head back down that road any time soon....least of all with Bilstien unless Porsche has screwed it onto the car standard.

3) And road surfaces here probably aren't too much different than over your way i imagine. You can have smooth roads, you can have not so smooth roads.... but ultimately a good DD must be able to accommodate for both.

4) And Can doing searches on Bilstein will pull up just as many bad as good stories unfortunately so the whole B/S AM package is a little too subjective imho. It seems many these days are now opting for the KW or Motons in favour as being the far superior package, even though i acknowledge there are still folks out there such as yourself and a few others that still speak favourably on their experiences with the B/S AM product.

 

1&2: Paul, agreed, that has always been my premise: never impose my personal preference. If anyone likes stock car as is, none of my business to tell him he's wrong! And yes, your previous exp. remains a big puzzle to me.

3: AFAIK, Porsche engineers did NOT "develop" GT3's suspension: they would have input for spring rates/dampening rates for sure, but the engineering and construction of *all* 911 OEM shock absorbers are done by Bilstein.

4: Moton: If you think Bilstein is stiff, whoever who recommends Moton to you for a daily driver must have his head examined. (No disrespect for anyone who has Moton in *his* DD, this only applies to Paul.)

4a. Agreed, but... if you pull up internet report about *anything* aftermarkets (exhaust, ECU, drop link, sway bar), you will find good and bad stories. Anecdotal reports aside, there has been no evidence that any particular coilover system is any more or less reliable than any others. You see more problems with Bilstein, it's because it's used by nearly everyone.
If you are not comfortable w/ Bilstein, the best alternative is KW. But beware, that does not mean you have any less risk of something going wrong. That the price we pay for our hobby! *EVERY* other system you see on the market: H&R, Techart, TPC, are derivatives of the Bilstein Damptronic. Ask yourself whether they would do that if they think it is any more problematic than others. The "silent" and overwhelming majority of Turbo owners on this forum have Bilstein for that reason.