I have the TPC modified Bilsteins with different valving and spring rates, presumably stiffer, as well as bars, links, etc. My wife (her car is a Lexus RX450) asked me how I could like driving the Porsche "in town every day" as stiff as it is. To me, it feels fine, just like a track tuned bike ridden on the street. ITs by no means a "comfortable" car in town, but its plenty comfortable enough for someone that enjoys driving a sports car.

I think the whole key to the Bilsteins is to have a "suspension package" installed by a reputable tuner that has done the homework on what springs, sways, etc. work together as a package. Lots of good tuners do that, but mix and matching seems to lead to unhappy drivers (along with poor installs).

 

That's correct, I never once said or meant to say that the Cayman S is faster than the TT. I know the TT would crush the CS easily. I was only talking about the level of engagement and overall balance. I know people get caught up with lap times, but if I only cared about that, I'd be driving a GT-R.

As for the homework portion, I test drove a few before buying one, but unfortunately, none of the test drives allowed me to really push the car to see what the car feels like at the limits of its handling. And I thought I could get used to the lack of steering feel, but it still feels a bit over assisted.

 

Then that being the case get over it and stop moaning, or, deal with the issues that are affecting your enjoyment, or sell the car and move on. I've spent the past 16 years driving atmo porsche 911's and the first time i test drove a turbo was the very first time i walked away confused....overwhelmed, but yet underwhelmed. A strange feeling indeed. I'd always wanted to tick the turbo box before reaching a certain age...and it was the pinnacle of porsches fleet. But on first drive it just didn't stir the emotions in the same way as the many many atmo porsches i had driven (inc cayman S's, boxter S's c4s cabs and so on) and owned I always loved the look of the wide body turbo, the spoilers, and the general recognition that the car was Porsches fastest...which there was no doubt from the moment i floored the throttle to redline in the first few gears....woaah!! But there was something missing that left me a little cold after the drive....and, I took one home for 24hours....forget driving the thing around the block with some car salesman in the seat. I recall getting back into my C2S the next day after i dropped the monster off and thought wow this car (the C2S that is) is all you need and it drives just so damn good....and sounds so good at the limit....forget the turbo, it looks great and goes hard, but save your money. No offence spf4000, what i just don't get with you is that its taken you six months of driving to figure this out....and, more to the point, you've been putting up with it. When analysing the things that were troubling me from the get go i was able to immediately rationalise what it was that required correcting,... for me to be able to continue the dream with that car. The exhaust note was certainly a major problem....in fact (a huge problem) and possibly the MAIN problem that affected my enjoyment. At the time it was obvious the car was never likely to have the same lightweight feel of a C2S...which was understood after the first few very fast turns (i can be a maniac) yet it was get overable as there were many other advantages the turbo car had over anything else i had driven in the Porsche fleet. Anyway, if it's truly taken you six months to arrive at the crossroads then the only advice i can give you is to deal with your issues in the best way possible or just sell the car and take a step back in power. But no point moaning about it. There is plenty of advice going around here about what to do so look at that seriously and make a move in a forward and positive direction. My best advice is start with the exhaust (and immediately!), but have realistic expectations....and be prepared to put your hand in your pocket to get the right result. It took me two goes at that unfortunately....but i got there eventually. Then spend the money and get a decent alignment done even if it means getting some LFCA's, bleed some synthetics into the brakes and it WILL make a huge difference. The car will take on a much lighter feel, (in fact feel lighter immediately...like a carrera) particularly when the brakes are at their liveliest and you have good responsive turn in. But understand this. You are going to have to spend money on this car and if you are not prepared to do that then just trade it back in on the cayman. Just my 2 cents. Actually, i should send you a bill JK. It's actually a pleasure helping a lost 997tt owners soul.

 

Paul, you have been stating your opinions on the Bilstein ride based on your experience of an old Bilstein system? It was not a Damptronic on a 997? Was it PSS9?

Not only different cars, *totally* different system adjustment: I am afraid your opinions are really not applicable or relevant to the Turbo at all. Or any 997 with PASM.

 

Hi Can, yes it was damptronic. I got it off Sharky so it was kosher. And fwiw i found it certainly sharpened the car up and generally felt like the car handled better in many situations but it was an overly taught system (IMHO) for street use...and thats the honest truth and ive always been one to push it wherever i can. I think it's in my blood . I had the car set up with GT3 cup LFCA's and had a very good alignment, corner balanced and weighted etc so it was pretty trick as far as set ups go. It was fine on billiard table smooth roads but as you know those are not everywhere. I also found on the track (Oran park...when it was open that is) which had some undulations coming into a few of the corners, and because the suspension was so taught it would actually throw the car off so on that track i found i was able to do better through the corners previously with my stock set up in sports mode with the good alignment. At Eastern creek track it wasn't so bad with the damptronics as that is a very smooth fast track in general terms and the car at high speed down the main straight would feel pretty good at 215/220 before having to brake hard at the first marker whereas with the stock suspension the car would get a bit light/floaty in the front end but i put that down to the car being under WOT right up until the marker. But yes the car felt more comfortable at high speed with the damptronics. The turbo does feel to have better stock suspension that what the S had and is still pretty planted at high speed at wot. I find in sport chrono mode the suspension is still reasonable fine having the right alignment and so on. That really makes quite a big difference as does the synthetic brake fluid. Naturally I dont have the car set in normal mode when punting it hard anyway so its still fine yet able to soak up the ragged undulations that can throw a very taught chassis off more i find. Anyway, my experience with the billys was more of a love hate relationship depending on the day, mood, road etc wheras with the stock set up it is more of a consistantly kinder relationship IYKWIM. Anyway....

 

I see. When you wrote "revised rod" I thought what revised rod - did not recognize it's the drop link.

Yes ride vs. handling - always true and always the compromise. If you car get thrown off the road like that, it's possible the combination of the particular settings & speed have caused the car to hit the internal bump stops. i.e. you were going nutty fast :-) over that undulation.

 

Sorry Can. Just Aussie terminology.....rod..drop link whatever...

Nah cant say i ever hit bump stops. Just the car was too fidgety for my liking into corners with surface imperfections. Sometimes a suspension with more "give" tends to soak up the imperfections better without having to get too wheel happy on the tiller in the process....so you wind up actually faster through those corners....and, more relaxed. Its always best to be as relaxed as possible when driving fast and i much prefer taking corners as fast as possible rather that just belting it down the straights...even though thats fun too. Can i dont step away from what ive found that an overly taught set up isnt as generally usable (for me) than one which has a relative level of give to it. I would agree the current set up could be marginally improved but my concern has always been at what cost. And with coilovers my expereince to date is they are an all or nothing solution. Not meaning to crap on those that love them....just that im sure there are better solutions for this car for those that want that bit more. Maybe the coils and a fiddle with the existing strut valving is all that is required to deliver the best of both worlds. Obviously Porsche has found a fair degree of success in the .2tt set up. But remember they are still making the everyday supercar here. Not the odd day out at the track car. They have other cars for that (GT2/3). I figure if i am going to require the ride of a GT2 or 3 then im better off buying one of those and be done with it. At least thay way i havent gone out to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear so when i want to sell the car it doesn't need too much surgery to get it back to stock. Again just my opinion...

 

It's all in how you set it up, and then how you drive it... the TT is more gas pedal steering, slower in, get pointed in the right direction and then fly out. The Cayman is a proper good handling car with a very low polar moment of inertia...the 911 has a much higher polar moment of inertia but if you know how to exploit it you can get a 911 to do magical things. What most people consider to be a bad design because all of that weight is out over the rear of the car is actually a pretty amazing thing. Think of this... What happens to the weight balance of a 911 when you hit the brake? All that weight in the back starts shifting forward esentially balancing the weight of the car, so in a straight line 911's stop very very well. Now you don't want to test that theory in the middle of a corner because all of that weight out back needs to stay there so that the rear tires keep traction... but mid corner in a TT, when that AWD starts making your car understeer, just start coming off the gas pedal, it transfers enough weight off the back and onto the front that the car will pull in and then when it starts to point in the direction you want to go...nail it! That car will pull you out of an apex like nothing your Cayman could touch... Ever look up the weight bias on a F1 car? It's not 50/50 like most people think it should be...nope, it's more 911'esq with the majority of it's weight over the back. You can tell which F1 cars have more weight over the back than the others too by how they start... the cars that are really quick on the start have more weight distributed to the back. Something to think about... but as far as confidence goes...the Cayman is more confidence inspiring to drive. The 911 takes some practice and faith, but the AWD 911's are a good learner 911 because that AWD system that oh so many hate is a great safety net. Nissan GT-R doesn't seem to have a problem with AWD...

 

Paul, above was (of course) a very reasonable discussion of ride vs. handling issue. Agreed.

Now I am beginning to see why your experience doesn't translate: the other pieces in the car! It's a car set up for the track, cup pieces, cup tire too sometimes? and sway bar?
But thanks for sharing the details - not here to convince you of anything. Just wondering about the puzzle.

 

You seem like a real nice guy cannga but you're wrong about moton's being bad for a daily driver. I have a daily driver w/ moton dual adjustable clubsports. After taking 20 seconds to soften the motons, even with stiffer springs the moton car rides softer than my car with pss9's at the softest settings.