That's a great question, especially for guys with stock tiptronic

APR tune on stock turbos with race file can reach 1.5bar (with no problems to the Tiptronic)
Protomotive doesn't want to push more than 1.4bar on VTG's and GT30's to be safe on the stock Tiptronic
Recently i found someone that is running 68VTG's on stock Tiptronic, i wonder how much boost he's running and if the 68VTG's are overkill for that set up.

Anyway, With a $300 price difference, 65VTG's from champion are a waste of time and money comparing to the 68VTG's

 

That's what I thought when I read the prices. IMO it's priced like that for a reason

P.s. what do try run on manual cars?

 

To achieve that 950Hp ( fly wheel?) what supporting mods would be required?At what boost levels? Do you have performance numbers and history at that type of HP?
Can you explain why you would stay with VTG's -- as compared with going other known turbo performance routes? tia

 

IMO the VTG setup prob saves install cost and headache as well as keep things looking close to stock, and the tech is a compromise between responiveness and top-end power. If you are only planing going really fast in a straight line and dont care about anything else some big "standard" turbo is prob better.

 

I think your alone with the 68mm compressor, do you have any details on how your upgrade differs from ie vividracings vtg upgrade?

 

I run 63.5 upgraded vtg's from 9ff,while they are very responsive and powerful they create more heat than a gt3071 with 0.63ar.
Recently i sat in one of a gt3071 0.63ar 997 turbo and spool time is FASTER,MORE POWERFUL and LESS HEAT.
What i am trying to say is vtg is a great upgrade but garrett is the proper way to do it.

 

I can see what you are saying but it swings both ways IMO

The VTG way is bolt on but requires a lot of headache for programming and the garrett way requires more parts but then I guess you have more options after!

 

Hi Nick!

My 20 cents:
I consider now VTGs are good until you want to break the 700hp/900Nm level.
Mine are probably not as good as the CMS68 but I consider now the future with Alpha3071s. (to preserve fast spooling)
I tried many tunes (logged, dynoed, v-boxed) and my VTGs exhaust housings are choking up to 1.3bar >5500/6000rpm: you can map more boost but the backpressure rises quicker than the power, with EGT and IAT...
Of course some guys here pushed the limits with ported heads, cams, higher displacement, flapped exhausts, etc... Their results are better but very expensive vs a nonVTG big turbo kit.

Nevertheless, if you come from stock turbos and your goal isnt more than 700hp/900Nm the Cms68 are certainly the best on the market.



Ps: my VTGs are the "700series" from who you know, 47.55/66mm.

 

The "upgraded vtgs vs big turbos" threads are numerous with pros and cons each way. From my point of view the simplicity of upgraded vtgs is a big advantage because I didn't want to deal with additional lines, external boost controllers, custom fabricated exhaust etc...

I went from stock car to upgraded vtgs, 997.2tt intercoolers, Sachs II.5 clutch, and AWE exhaust and the car's performance went from mid 8s 100-200km/hr to 6.2-6.6s which is about 2s improvement. Driveability is just like stock, and it has been very reliable. If your goal is to go much faster than that then either Champions vtgs or you get into the Tial/Garrett route. While the turbos themselves are not terribly expensive, the lines, boost controllers and other requirements will lead to the price going up more than just a little...

The Champion 68s may only cost a few hundred more than their 65s but then you will need the carbon inlet pipes to get the most out of the turbos and that's another few thousand, plus at least hundreds more for installation of the pipes. So it's not just a few hundred more!

I'm waiting for street results for the 68s (there's a different thread here where I was told someone would provide results soon) and then it's probably the way I'll go. Yeah I'd love a BIG turbo setup with rocketlike acceleration but honestly even the current vtgs I have meet my needs MOST of the time.

 

Today i decided to go for alpha 3076 kit,they are also bolt on,just like any vtg upgrade.
Also easy to go back to vtg's if i want to sell my car easily.
Plus all the good blow-off noises

 

Thanks for your opinions guys it's nice to have a debate like this and see other peoples experience's and ideas!!


From what I am learning from all this, is that if your ultimate goal is big power i.e. 700bhp+ then VTG's are not for you but if you want to stick with VTG then I think the 650bhp mark seems to be the sweet spot for these turbos so the you keep the EGT's and IAT's within the limits otherwise the 997 ECU will just pull it back anyway!!!

I would like to see the response from the CMS 68mm aswell BOGG.

 

Errr...alphas can't be considered bolt-on if you have to run lines (oil and water) to them. Plus, you won't easily be able to use 997.2 intercoolers (I think) in order to get max benefit from them and have a place for the wastegates (although there may be a version with internal wastegates). Are you going to be running pump gas or something else?

Oh, and congrats on the decision!

 

It is good to see what it will be like!

http://www.tialmedia.com/TiAL%20PDFs...structions.pdf

 

I wonder if the CMS 68mm will connect to the Evoms intake hoses as they are far cheaper than the CMS carbon intake hoses?

 

With VTG's you can make 650whp, which is a lot more than 700crank. I believe the problem is that you don't get consistent runs at that power level because the turbos get so hot so it will back down a little. With the bigger turbos you can run it all day with out losing power.