Looking to build ~800WHP 997.1TT Street/Track Attack Setup
#91
07-30-2013, 06:08 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 724
Rep Power: 53 
Tony at EPL tunes all the high horsepower cars that run on e85 and gt30s or bigger that I know of around here!
#92
08-01-2013, 09:18 AM
Using E85, my fuel costs have risen ~10%. My fun factor rises about 50% though, so worth it. And the first time you load a tank of M109 or C16 at $15+/gallon, throw away months of the cost savings of pump gas.
Response time for VTG vs the 3071/76 sized turbos wont be that major. In other cars, similar claims were made of VTGs and various other configs (like borg warner's new EFR setups) yet all testing has shown that billet gt30 series turbos perform statistically identical. Cost is the real deciding factor I think, and the exact power number you're after. On a stock engine, VTGs just do it all. IMO of course.
Response time for VTG vs the 3071/76 sized turbos wont be that major. In other cars, similar claims were made of VTGs and various other configs (like borg warner's new EFR setups) yet all testing has shown that billet gt30 series turbos perform statistically identical. Cost is the real deciding factor I think, and the exact power number you're after. On a stock engine, VTGs just do it all. IMO of course.
I could see the appeal.
What approx. mileage are you getting with general "daily-driving"? Street and freeway?
#94
09-16-2013, 08:27 PM
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 145
Rep Power: 21
So I wanted to give everyone an update on this thread.
Well after posting this and getting peoples opinions, I reached out to a couple different shops and inquired about their builds and how they would suit me needs. After a bit of research, I decided to go with a VTG build as opposed to a GT or Alpha build since making sure I had no turbo lag was a huge thing to me since I am road racing. After some looking and SEVERAL phone calls, I decided to go with Champion Motorsports over Protomotive as Champion seemed to specialize in the VTG builds. (my opinion of course).
So I spent a few hours on the phone with Tom @ Champion talking about what I was hoping to get out of the car and what my needs were. He was very patient with me and explained exactly how they did things and even told me that I didint "need" a few things that normally come in their VTG 68 build. At the end of our conversation, we scheduled for me to send the car down to them to get their full VTG 68 build with the exception of the motor build.
A Few days later, Tom told me that they could actually meet me at Road Atlanta (I had a race the next weekend) and they could trailer the car down to Ft. Lauderdale for me instead of me having to send it. Vic (the head tech) met me at Road Atlanta and hung out with me for the weekend and provided Track Support (prior to me spending a dime with them). At the end of the weekend, Vic put my car on the trailer and took it down to FL for me. (free of charge).
About 2 weeks later I get a call from Tom (after several pics of the build process) telling me that my car was done. Champion then offered to set up a track day for me at a local track to test out my new build. I thought that was a great idea and flew down to Ft. Lauderdale and Champion picked me up from the airport. After a tour of the shop, which is VERY cool, we all caravanned to Palm Beach Raceway to test my new build. As an aside, my car currently has 665whp with 644 ft lb of TQ. When Champion initially flashed their stock motor map, we made over 730+ WHP and had to detune the car to be safe on the stock internals.
At Palm Beach Raceway Champion provided full track support for me and made sure that I had no issues with my vehicle and that I was completely satisfied. I took things easy at that track as it was my first time there and I wanted to test the car out. None the less, I ran well and had no issues. After the track day, I went to my hotel and then drove 8+hrs to Atlanta to run a 3 day HPDE race.
Before I get to Road Atlanta, let me talk about the customer service from Champion Motorsports, it was some of the best I have ever had. It was too the point where I started feeling bad about how attentive and supportive the guys were. I have never been to a performance shop that had such great service on all levels. I would recommend Champion Motorsports to EVERYONE.
Anyway, I got to Road Atlanta and on my first run took almost 10 seconds off of my previous best lap. My car was a completely different beast and I absolutely loved it. It was too the point where I was the fastest guy in my class and everyone noticed it, Champion specifically tuned my car for road racing and made sure that the power delivery was very linear and worked very well for road racing.
At the end of the first day, I ran my best lap at Road Atlanta, a 1:37 on street tires with a full interior. I was ecstatic and consequently was told I had the fastest lap time in my class. The rest of the track days, I ran MULTIPLE 1:37s on street tires and was completely taken away by the performance of the car. My last session of the last day, I didint run a lap over 1:39 and had a couple 1:37s on that session. Keep in mind, Im not a pro racer, im not running Time Trials. I am running my daily driver, with a full interior, on street tires (Pilot Sports), that I drove 8hrs to the track and then 6hrs home after the track weekend.
The car is 100% a BEAST after my Champion Motorsports build, it was worth every dime I spent. Then on top of that, Tom followed up with me after my track weekend to make sure that everything went well. Once again, excellent customer service.
I know that some guys like 1/4 times, and other guys like dyno sheets, and even more vbox times. However that means nothing to me. I wanted to build I Track Attack/Street Car and that is what Champion did. For me, the proof is in the racing, and SEVERAL 1:37s on street tires is all the proof that I need.
Long story short, Champion Motorsports built me exactly what I was looking for and I am VERY happy with my purchase. After a while I will have them build my motor for me and we will re-tune the car to maximize the power in my VTG 68 build. I am 100% satisfied with what they have done so far and have track times and vids to back it up.
For the purposes of review, I have posted one of my 1:37 lap times for you guys to review and verify what I am saying. Keep in mind, Harrys Lap Timer adds 2 seconds before and after each lap by default so the video is 1:41. Long story short, running a bunch of 1:37s as a normal guy running street tires is amazing. Champion builds one hell of a track car! If your in the market for a build, be sure to give Tom @ Champion a shot. They aren't sponsoring me, giving me anything, or paying me any money for this post, however as a business owner, I can appreciate the effectiveness of customer reviews and word of mouth. These guys deserve it.
-Sayajin
Well after posting this and getting peoples opinions, I reached out to a couple different shops and inquired about their builds and how they would suit me needs. After a bit of research, I decided to go with a VTG build as opposed to a GT or Alpha build since making sure I had no turbo lag was a huge thing to me since I am road racing. After some looking and SEVERAL phone calls, I decided to go with Champion Motorsports over Protomotive as Champion seemed to specialize in the VTG builds. (my opinion of course).
So I spent a few hours on the phone with Tom @ Champion talking about what I was hoping to get out of the car and what my needs were. He was very patient with me and explained exactly how they did things and even told me that I didint "need" a few things that normally come in their VTG 68 build. At the end of our conversation, we scheduled for me to send the car down to them to get their full VTG 68 build with the exception of the motor build.
A Few days later, Tom told me that they could actually meet me at Road Atlanta (I had a race the next weekend) and they could trailer the car down to Ft. Lauderdale for me instead of me having to send it. Vic (the head tech) met me at Road Atlanta and hung out with me for the weekend and provided Track Support (prior to me spending a dime with them). At the end of the weekend, Vic put my car on the trailer and took it down to FL for me. (free of charge).
About 2 weeks later I get a call from Tom (after several pics of the build process) telling me that my car was done. Champion then offered to set up a track day for me at a local track to test out my new build. I thought that was a great idea and flew down to Ft. Lauderdale and Champion picked me up from the airport. After a tour of the shop, which is VERY cool, we all caravanned to Palm Beach Raceway to test my new build. As an aside, my car currently has 665whp with 644 ft lb of TQ. When Champion initially flashed their stock motor map, we made over 730+ WHP and had to detune the car to be safe on the stock internals.
At Palm Beach Raceway Champion provided full track support for me and made sure that I had no issues with my vehicle and that I was completely satisfied. I took things easy at that track as it was my first time there and I wanted to test the car out. None the less, I ran well and had no issues. After the track day, I went to my hotel and then drove 8+hrs to Atlanta to run a 3 day HPDE race.
Before I get to Road Atlanta, let me talk about the customer service from Champion Motorsports, it was some of the best I have ever had. It was too the point where I started feeling bad about how attentive and supportive the guys were. I have never been to a performance shop that had such great service on all levels. I would recommend Champion Motorsports to EVERYONE.
Anyway, I got to Road Atlanta and on my first run took almost 10 seconds off of my previous best lap. My car was a completely different beast and I absolutely loved it. It was too the point where I was the fastest guy in my class and everyone noticed it, Champion specifically tuned my car for road racing and made sure that the power delivery was very linear and worked very well for road racing.
At the end of the first day, I ran my best lap at Road Atlanta, a 1:37 on street tires with a full interior. I was ecstatic and consequently was told I had the fastest lap time in my class. The rest of the track days, I ran MULTIPLE 1:37s on street tires and was completely taken away by the performance of the car. My last session of the last day, I didint run a lap over 1:39 and had a couple 1:37s on that session. Keep in mind, Im not a pro racer, im not running Time Trials. I am running my daily driver, with a full interior, on street tires (Pilot Sports), that I drove 8hrs to the track and then 6hrs home after the track weekend.
The car is 100% a BEAST after my Champion Motorsports build, it was worth every dime I spent. Then on top of that, Tom followed up with me after my track weekend to make sure that everything went well. Once again, excellent customer service.
I know that some guys like 1/4 times, and other guys like dyno sheets, and even more vbox times. However that means nothing to me. I wanted to build I Track Attack/Street Car and that is what Champion did. For me, the proof is in the racing, and SEVERAL 1:37s on street tires is all the proof that I need.
Long story short, Champion Motorsports built me exactly what I was looking for and I am VERY happy with my purchase. After a while I will have them build my motor for me and we will re-tune the car to maximize the power in my VTG 68 build. I am 100% satisfied with what they have done so far and have track times and vids to back it up.
For the purposes of review, I have posted one of my 1:37 lap times for you guys to review and verify what I am saying. Keep in mind, Harrys Lap Timer adds 2 seconds before and after each lap by default so the video is 1:41. Long story short, running a bunch of 1:37s as a normal guy running street tires is amazing. Champion builds one hell of a track car! If your in the market for a build, be sure to give Tom @ Champion a shot. They aren't sponsoring me, giving me anything, or paying me any money for this post, however as a business owner, I can appreciate the effectiveness of customer reviews and word of mouth. These guys deserve it.
-Sayajin
#95
09-16-2013, 08:42 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,666
Rep Power: 235
Great story! Well done Champion, that sounds like excellent customer service.
Sayajin, I know you are not a pbox guy but if you are able to get some 60-130mph times with your setup it would definitely influence the decisions of those of us who ARE pbox guys, lol.
Sayajin, I know you are not a pbox guy but if you are able to get some 60-130mph times with your setup it would definitely influence the decisions of those of us who ARE pbox guys, lol.
#99
09-17-2013, 10:53 AM
Sayajin:
These CMS Turbos are soooo much fun on the track! Are your running 100 octane at the track in "RACE" mode or did you just leave in "PUMP" mode and run 91/93?
Next outing, be sure to keep an eye on your water temperature. My set-up, although not as extreme as yours has been seeing very high temps on 95-100º track days. Not to sure what has been causing it at this point.
Have you done anything with your suspension yet? Champion can help you with your suspension needs as well. You are very lucky to be close enough to have CMS track support!
Cheers,
VID997
These CMS Turbos are soooo much fun on the track! Are your running 100 octane at the track in "RACE" mode or did you just leave in "PUMP" mode and run 91/93?
Next outing, be sure to keep an eye on your water temperature. My set-up, although not as extreme as yours has been seeing very high temps on 95-100º track days. Not to sure what has been causing it at this point.
Have you done anything with your suspension yet? Champion can help you with your suspension needs as well. You are very lucky to be close enough to have CMS track support!
Cheers,
VID997
#100
09-17-2013, 11:08 AM
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Beach, Miami
Age: 42
Posts: 338
Rep Power: 49
CMS guys seem pretty outstanding!
When will you be taking it to Sebring?
With your target car setup you will be able to do a 2:13 or so. Well should I say, your car should be capable of it
When will you be taking it to Sebring?
With your target car setup you will be able to do a 2:13 or so. Well should I say, your car should be capable of it
#101
09-17-2013, 05:19 PM
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 145
Rep Power: 21
Vid, I am running 100+ Octane is RACE mode. The car is CRAZY fast! Also, thanks for the advice on the water temps, I will be sure to keep an eye on them. I have another race this weekend in Memphis so I will check it out.
As far as suspension, I have a stage 4 setup already. Bilstein PASM Coilovers, GMG Sway Bars, and a full Tarett suspension. Damn near the only thing factory on the suspension are the rear control arms, however I swapped out the bushings.
Djben, I was actually talking to a few of the guys in Road Atlanta about a Sebring outing. Ive never been there before (I figure if im going 6hrs to the track I might as well do Road Atlanta instead normally) however the guys say its a great track and I should check it out. I will probably make a trip out there in a few months after the new year.
-Sayajin
As far as suspension, I have a stage 4 setup already. Bilstein PASM Coilovers, GMG Sway Bars, and a full Tarett suspension. Damn near the only thing factory on the suspension are the rear control arms, however I swapped out the bushings.
Djben, I was actually talking to a few of the guys in Road Atlanta about a Sebring outing. Ive never been there before (I figure if im going 6hrs to the track I might as well do Road Atlanta instead normally) however the guys say its a great track and I should check it out. I will probably make a trip out there in a few months after the new year.
-Sayajin
#102
09-18-2013, 10:18 AM
Glad to hear that you are enjoying the Champion VTG setup! It's hard to fathom the powerband of the VTG's until you have a first-hand experience with it. If I were building a car for Texas Mile or Airstrip Attack, I would likely go with a 35R or similar setup. Anything less (and especially if you are staying stock motor), there is really no comparison to the 65/68mm VTG's.
When you can start making boost at 2,000 RPM, it makes for a fun ride
When you can start making boost at 2,000 RPM, it makes for a fun ride
#103
09-25-2013, 09:02 PM
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 145
Rep Power: 21
So this weekend I ran Memphis International Raceway and once again put down some crazy times! I am running 1:13's once again on Street Tires with my full interior 997.1TT. I figured I would post another vid to show how great a Champion VTG build is!
-Sayajin
-Sayajin
#104
09-26-2013, 10:51 AM
So I wanted to give everyone an update on this thread.
Well after posting this and getting peoples opinions, I reached out to a couple different shops and inquired about their builds and how they would suit me needs. After a bit of research, I decided to go with a VTG build as opposed to a GT or Alpha build since making sure I had no turbo lag was a huge thing to me since I am road racing. After some looking and SEVERAL phone calls, I decided to go with Champion Motorsports over Protomotive as Champion seemed to specialize in the VTG builds. (my opinion of course).
So I spent a few hours on the phone with Tom @ Champion talking about what I was hoping to get out of the car and what my needs were. He was very patient with me and explained exactly how they did things and even told me that I didint "need" a few things that normally come in their VTG 68 build. At the end of our conversation, we scheduled for me to send the car down to them to get their full VTG 68 build with the exception of the motor build.
A Few days later, Tom told me that they could actually meet me at Road Atlanta (I had a race the next weekend) and they could trailer the car down to Ft. Lauderdale for me instead of me having to send it. Vic (the head tech) met me at Road Atlanta and hung out with me for the weekend and provided Track Support (prior to me spending a dime with them). At the end of the weekend, Vic put my car on the trailer and took it down to FL for me. (free of charge).
About 2 weeks later I get a call from Tom (after several pics of the build process) telling me that my car was done. Champion then offered to set up a track day for me at a local track to test out my new build. I thought that was a great idea and flew down to Ft. Lauderdale and Champion picked me up from the airport. After a tour of the shop, which is VERY cool, we all caravanned to Palm Beach Raceway to test my new build. As an aside, my car currently has 665whp with 644 ft lb of TQ. When Champion initially flashed their stock motor map, we made over 730+ WHP and had to detune the car to be safe on the stock internals.
At Palm Beach Raceway Champion provided full track support for me and made sure that I had no issues with my vehicle and that I was completely satisfied. I took things easy at that track as it was my first time there and I wanted to test the car out. None the less, I ran well and had no issues. After the track day, I went to my hotel and then drove 8+hrs to Atlanta to run a 3 day HPDE race.
Before I get to Road Atlanta, let me talk about the customer service from Champion Motorsports, it was some of the best I have ever had. It was too the point where I started feeling bad about how attentive and supportive the guys were. I have never been to a performance shop that had such great service on all levels. I would recommend Champion Motorsports to EVERYONE.
Anyway, I got to Road Atlanta and on my first run took almost 10 seconds off of my previous best lap. My car was a completely different beast and I absolutely loved it. It was too the point where I was the fastest guy in my class and everyone noticed it, Champion specifically tuned my car for road racing and made sure that the power delivery was very linear and worked very well for road racing.
At the end of the first day, I ran my best lap at Road Atlanta, a 1:37 on street tires with a full interior. I was ecstatic and consequently was told I had the fastest lap time in my class. The rest of the track days, I ran MULTIPLE 1:37s on street tires and was completely taken away by the performance of the car. My last session of the last day, I didint run a lap over 1:39 and had a couple 1:37s on that session. Keep in mind, Im not a pro racer, im not running Time Trials. I am running my daily driver, with a full interior, on street tires (Pilot Sports), that I drove 8hrs to the track and then 6hrs home after the track weekend.
The car is 100% a BEAST after my Champion Motorsports build, it was worth every dime I spent. Then on top of that, Tom followed up with me after my track weekend to make sure that everything went well. Once again, excellent customer service.
I know that some guys like 1/4 times, and other guys like dyno sheets, and even more vbox times. However that means nothing to me. I wanted to build I Track Attack/Street Car and that is what Champion did. For me, the proof is in the racing, and SEVERAL 1:37s on street tires is all the proof that I need.
Long story short, Champion Motorsports built me exactly what I was looking for and I am VERY happy with my purchase. After a while I will have them build my motor for me and we will re-tune the car to maximize the power in my VTG 68 build. I am 100% satisfied with what they have done so far and have track times and vids to back it up.
For the purposes of review, I have posted one of my 1:37 lap times for you guys to review and verify what I am saying. Keep in mind, Harrys Lap Timer adds 2 seconds before and after each lap by default so the video is 1:41. Long story short, running a bunch of 1:37s as a normal guy running street tires is amazing. Champion builds one hell of a track car! If your in the market for a build, be sure to give Tom @ Champion a shot. They aren't sponsoring me, giving me anything, or paying me any money for this post, however as a business owner, I can appreciate the effectiveness of customer reviews and word of mouth. These guys deserve it.
-Sayajin
Well after posting this and getting peoples opinions, I reached out to a couple different shops and inquired about their builds and how they would suit me needs. After a bit of research, I decided to go with a VTG build as opposed to a GT or Alpha build since making sure I had no turbo lag was a huge thing to me since I am road racing. After some looking and SEVERAL phone calls, I decided to go with Champion Motorsports over Protomotive as Champion seemed to specialize in the VTG builds. (my opinion of course).
So I spent a few hours on the phone with Tom @ Champion talking about what I was hoping to get out of the car and what my needs were. He was very patient with me and explained exactly how they did things and even told me that I didint "need" a few things that normally come in their VTG 68 build. At the end of our conversation, we scheduled for me to send the car down to them to get their full VTG 68 build with the exception of the motor build.
A Few days later, Tom told me that they could actually meet me at Road Atlanta (I had a race the next weekend) and they could trailer the car down to Ft. Lauderdale for me instead of me having to send it. Vic (the head tech) met me at Road Atlanta and hung out with me for the weekend and provided Track Support (prior to me spending a dime with them). At the end of the weekend, Vic put my car on the trailer and took it down to FL for me. (free of charge).
About 2 weeks later I get a call from Tom (after several pics of the build process) telling me that my car was done. Champion then offered to set up a track day for me at a local track to test out my new build. I thought that was a great idea and flew down to Ft. Lauderdale and Champion picked me up from the airport. After a tour of the shop, which is VERY cool, we all caravanned to Palm Beach Raceway to test my new build. As an aside, my car currently has 665whp with 644 ft lb of TQ. When Champion initially flashed their stock motor map, we made over 730+ WHP and had to detune the car to be safe on the stock internals.
At Palm Beach Raceway Champion provided full track support for me and made sure that I had no issues with my vehicle and that I was completely satisfied. I took things easy at that track as it was my first time there and I wanted to test the car out. None the less, I ran well and had no issues. After the track day, I went to my hotel and then drove 8+hrs to Atlanta to run a 3 day HPDE race.
Before I get to Road Atlanta, let me talk about the customer service from Champion Motorsports, it was some of the best I have ever had. It was too the point where I started feeling bad about how attentive and supportive the guys were. I have never been to a performance shop that had such great service on all levels. I would recommend Champion Motorsports to EVERYONE.
Anyway, I got to Road Atlanta and on my first run took almost 10 seconds off of my previous best lap. My car was a completely different beast and I absolutely loved it. It was too the point where I was the fastest guy in my class and everyone noticed it, Champion specifically tuned my car for road racing and made sure that the power delivery was very linear and worked very well for road racing.
At the end of the first day, I ran my best lap at Road Atlanta, a 1:37 on street tires with a full interior. I was ecstatic and consequently was told I had the fastest lap time in my class. The rest of the track days, I ran MULTIPLE 1:37s on street tires and was completely taken away by the performance of the car. My last session of the last day, I didint run a lap over 1:39 and had a couple 1:37s on that session. Keep in mind, Im not a pro racer, im not running Time Trials. I am running my daily driver, with a full interior, on street tires (Pilot Sports), that I drove 8hrs to the track and then 6hrs home after the track weekend.
The car is 100% a BEAST after my Champion Motorsports build, it was worth every dime I spent. Then on top of that, Tom followed up with me after my track weekend to make sure that everything went well. Once again, excellent customer service.
I know that some guys like 1/4 times, and other guys like dyno sheets, and even more vbox times. However that means nothing to me. I wanted to build I Track Attack/Street Car and that is what Champion did. For me, the proof is in the racing, and SEVERAL 1:37s on street tires is all the proof that I need.
Long story short, Champion Motorsports built me exactly what I was looking for and I am VERY happy with my purchase. After a while I will have them build my motor for me and we will re-tune the car to maximize the power in my VTG 68 build. I am 100% satisfied with what they have done so far and have track times and vids to back it up.
For the purposes of review, I have posted one of my 1:37 lap times for you guys to review and verify what I am saying. Keep in mind, Harrys Lap Timer adds 2 seconds before and after each lap by default so the video is 1:41. Long story short, running a bunch of 1:37s as a normal guy running street tires is amazing. Champion builds one hell of a track car! If your in the market for a build, be sure to give Tom @ Champion a shot. They aren't sponsoring me, giving me anything, or paying me any money for this post, however as a business owner, I can appreciate the effectiveness of customer reviews and word of mouth. These guys deserve it.
-Sayajin
Glad you made the right choice and even more are extremely happy with your results. I was going to be going to Champion when I acquire my Turbo S and from your review, that choice is now concrete.
Have fun with your beast!
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