Okay guys, So i have decided to take the plunge and build my 997.1TT within the next few months. My goals are to have roughly 800WHP on the vehicle.

As far as vehicle usage, I daily drive my vehicle, however do a minimum of 2 track weekends a month, often time 3-4. I am looking to build something that is a street/track attack setup that is "reasonably" reliable based upon the power I am looking for.

Currently I have:

Bilsten PASM Coilovers
GMG F/R Sway Bars
Tarrett Stage 4 Suspension
GMG Exhaust
Softronic Flash
ERP Triple Carbon Clutch w/ Aluminum Flywheel

I purposely did not do IC or Intake yet as I knew I wanted to go with a Turbo Kit and those items normally come with them.

With that said, what turbo kit and/or other modifications would you guys suggest that can handle 800WHP for a Street/Track Setup and maintain reliability and daily drivability? I have a few months before I am ready to make the dive and want to make sure I get it done right the first time! Thanks!

-Sayajin

 

Hi there,
You cannot have reliable 800Whp without having reinforced engine internals and in more specific connecting rods. Your stock rods WILL bend. If you change your rods then this power level you want is possible with a GTX3076 or a bolt on TiAL A3076 at 1,9 bar approximately. Of course you'll be needing larger intercoolers as well and a fenderwell intake as well as Ypipes and water/meth injection to run a race map. You can run 1,45bar for a daily use then 1,65-1,7 for mid boost and then 1,9bar for race. You can control boost with a boost controller. Reliability will depend on the workshop and also your tunner.
With your stock engine you can run 1,65bar with the same turbos as above (or 3071gtx /alphas). It's dead reliable and will give you a good 850 crank hp. The car will be really fast. (You'll be needing 80lb injectors for both cases though). Also with stock engine you can have 1,25bar daily, 1,45 bar md-boost and 1,65 for race with water/meth injection. That's the powerkit I am gonna go for in the near future. Just my 0.2.

 

If you want reliability and real OEM-like driving characteristics, consider one of our VTG-based power kits. We offer two packages that can give you a few different options for power output.

We have a 65mm VTG kit that produces a reliable 600whp/585wtq on a car with a stock engine, on pump gas. This is probably one of our most popular packages.

Then we have our larger 68mm VTG's. On a stock engine, we limit these to around 22psi, where they produce about 650whp on pump gas, and about 685whp on race gas. If you decided to build your engine then these same turbos at about 27-28psi can product north of 800whp.

The beauty of VTG based kits is that you don't really sacrifice much low end power, and we have some pretty awesome track-specific tunes that provide incredibly linear torque delivery . You also don't have to permanently modify your car in any way.

At the end of the day, what matters most is exactly how you want the car to drive, and finding someone who's willing to build it in a way that you're going to be happy with it, and support you down the road. If there's any way we can help...let me know.

 

If you are averaging 2-4 track weekends a month, unless you are a professional race car driver and can really use that power I really would be concerned with your need for "800WHP" on a road course.

If you are driving at any sort of decent pace with a club that gives you lots of driving time I think 800 reliable wheel HP (1000+ crank?) is going to be incredibly expensive -- my guess is you are going to have to factor in engine rebuilds once every other year and possibly also transmission rebuilds. Unless of course the GT1 is THAT much more robust and reliable than I even thought it was

Not trying to be overly critical here but most people going for this sort of thing are headed in the wrong direction. At an average of 2-3 track weekends per month I think trying to take out your DD 911 TT is just a bad idea and you will soon find yourself wanting a cheaper NA car with a truck and a trailer.

I do not think any local mechanic/race shop is going to share this kind of information as you are looking to spend what appears to be somewhere in the range of $50,000-$100,000 USD with them right away, with likely continued maintenance/upgrades after that. Not easy to turn that kind of money down. I think they should however be recommending a full cage, race seats, and 5pt harness. The frequency you are driving and speed you'll be keeping in the corners if you are actually driving fast will need it from a safety perspective. Oh yeah.... at this point you don't have a DD any more

 

Don't let anyone tell you that you can't build a reliable 800whp car. It's definetly possible, just give Switzer a call and ask for Neil(I already Pmed you the info). They wouldn't risk there name and give you a 2 year/24k warranty if they didn't think it was possible. Check out my thread:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ming-soon.html

Any questions feel free to PM me or Call Neil Switzer 440-774-4219

 

If you are going to be tracking the car, I would seriously consider going with VTG's. The powerband that they produce will serve you better than a GT-based turbo. I would only go the GT route if you are planning on 35's or larger, and by then you are deep into a motor build and a car that is more suited for roll racing.

 

I personally would not go with Vtg's, especially if your trying to make big power. They get really hot and after a couple pulls you lose a lot of power. As much as these companies say you can make 800whp on them, you never see 60-130 #'s on VTG's even close to a GT30 or GT35 set up. 60-130 #'s always can give a good estimate on how powerful the car is. If your tracking it I would go with a Switzer P800 kit. GT28's will give you early response in the power band and more power than a VTG. It should make around 720WHP on 100 octane and comes with a 2 year warranty cant beat it for the price. Should also run low to mid 5's 60-130. Your car wont lose power after a couple laps at the track. You probably wont need all that power for the track, but the good thing is Switzer can make you a track map and then when you leave you can have a daily map and then another map for half mile racing events for full boost!

 

With all due respect....you say this EVERY time a VTG discussion comes up. What proof do you have that you lose power after a few runs with VTG's? The way VTG are tuned there's no reason to lose power as long as you manage IAT's and EGT. We have never had an issue with ours and we tune in the 100 degree Florida heat and have run our 68mm VTG's as high as 30psi and never seen higher then 950ºc EGT's or higher then 36ºc IAT.

I have posted at least a few dozen dyno sheets showing PROVEN wheel HP and TQ from our VTG kits. That was never enough and everyone wanted to see a 60-130 pass. So I sent a kit to customer in Turkey who has no affiliation with Champion. He installed it himself, plugged in the ECU that I flashed for him, filled the car with crappy 97RON fuel, and proceeded to run a VERIFIED 5.50 second 60-130mph run. Yet somehow that's still not good enough even though it still stands on the rankings to this day??

I can appreciate the fact that you are happy with your Switzer kit, and I want to make it very clear that I also happen to think that Switzer makes an amazing product. But you can't keep bashing our VTG's to hype their kits when you essentially have no experience with either. The fact of the matter is that our VTG turbos will make just as much power as a GT28, and with loads more TQ early on. On a built engine it's an apples to oranges comparison...but on a stock engine, there is no way a GT or an Alpha turbo will outperform a VTG by any significant margin.

Your comments about Switzer's warranty are also somewhat misleading. While I commend them for offering a 2 year warranty...the fact is that it only covers their installed parts and labor. Our warranty mirrors your factory Porsche warranty in every way, which again, is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

Tom,

In my previous post I never said one negative thing about any company that sells vtg's. I just simply stated my opinion on vtg turbos. I know you have posted tons of dyno sheets, but only 1 car that got into the 5's on a 60-130 run? Did you see the recent vtg kit that proto made? It made 700whp on e85 and still couldn't touch the 5's. I know he had a passenger and it was hot, but by no means do these vtg kits touch the performance of a gt kit. There have been many 4 sec gt based Turbo cars running around. That's why there is a significant price difference between the two kits. Also dyno #'s don't mean anything as Martin showed at AMS how easy it is to show higher #'s but you can't tweak a 60-130 time. As far as the warranty goes who really has factory warranty left on a 997.1 anyway? As long as anything involving the kit is warrantied your good. If other things break its not there fault if it's not kit related. Maybe a 997.2, but not a lot of people really mod those just a tune and exhaust. Your 9 sec pass with 997.2 was impressive though.

 

Whether you go bigger VTG's or Garrett-based turbos, I'd personally do an E85 or E98 fuel setup for extensive track action. You are going to be using either race gas or ethanol at 800whp, so go w/ the one that burns much cooler (less component stress) and is way cheaper per gallon.

 

Keep in mind that tuning VTG's is not the same as tuning GT-based turbos. Controlling the veins is something that many companies have had difficulty with. When VTG's originally came out, people said they couldn't make power simply because tuners couldn't control the veins. With proper control of the veins, you will see an extremely robust powerband with great top end power. I wouldn't compare a GT28 based turbo with a K16 size hotside to a 68mm VTG.

 

+1 agreed ^^^^

 

Thomas,

I'll be at the next airstrip event in coalinga. Will you be attending? Are there any 68mm vtg cars there? I would love to have a friendly race with the go pros hooked up if there will be.

 

Then I apologize. But your implication about VTG's getting too hot and losing power sounded a lot like a statement of fact, so I felt the need to defend it.

So...are you suggesting the car that ran 5.50 was a fake, or somehow didn't really do it? And yes, I have seen Proto's VTG car, but again with all due respect to that car and it's owner (and to Proto)..it didn't have our software or any of our hardware. It has smaller VTG's (can't be bigger then 65mm), doesn't have our intercoolers (we are the only company using this core material), or the tuning. Our GIAC tuning makes ALL the difference on VTG cars and I can assure you we've reached a level of tuning with VTG's that no one can touch. Why? Because it's all we do. You're putting all VTG turbo kits into 1 bucket when the reality is that they are WAY different then ours. You simply cannot compare another company's VTG's to ours. Has anyone else ever made 850whp on VTG's?

AMS showed how that can be done on a Mustang dyno. We use a DynoJet. Again...suggesting that we're lying or faking our dyno numbers? Sorry...that may be what some people are used to, but it's not what we do at Champion. Never have, never will. We sell proven, reliable products.

If I sound a little bit defensive it's because I am. I've never once sold a product to a customer by bashing our giving out false information about one of our competitors. We sell our products and power kits on their own merits. Yet, on a daily basis I get calls and emails from people saying "so-and-so said this is BS about your turbos", or "this company said that your tuning blows up engines". So when I hear really generalized statements about VTG's, our products in general, or just blatant lies....I wonder if others in the industry are extending the same courtesy to me.

 

We will likely be there. As far as 68 cars, we have one customer locally who has 68mm's on stock fueling, internals, stock tiptronic and inlet pipes. Probably not the comparison you are seeking, but he will likely be in attendance.