holy crap , gt2 rs intercoolers came in 2nd?!?!

Nick, is that with the oem plastic end tanks ?
there was a guy on here (i forget his username, but he was in germany) that had metal end tanks made that welded on to gt2 intercoolers..

think that would help ?

 

Yes they came in second out of the 3 cores tested.

They were OEM end tanks.

Only with boost leaks but not in performance, but you can always add extra clamps for that or use some sort of bonding agent.

 

Hello,

Check out this thread. He is my Estonian customer, mostly racing in trackday events.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...techart-2.html

 

Nick, you and I have always had a good relationship....so I find it interesting that you haven't mentioned that I emailed you a comprehensive data-log of our intercoolers last night.

If I could figure out how to post an Excel spreadsheet on here, I would.


Walt, if you give me your email address, or tell me how to post an Excel sheet here, I'll gladly show the data I have. I can GUARANTEE you that our intercoolers will outperform .2 intercoolers in every way. We are not the type of company that sells a product that hasn't been thoroughly engineered and tested. They work, period.

 

Well Tom if you remember I sent you a mail back telling you that it proves nothing doing a 4th gear pull on a dyno and it can easily be manipulated.

You could have taken the bumper off the car, you could be blowing air directly into the coolers hell you can even spray water.

Then you send me another message trying to insult my intelligence about how I go on what I hear from others.

Am I am not capable of making my own mind up?

Then your excuse for not testing your coolers properly is the licence speech again and risking customers cars.

So why don't you go to a track and do a back to back? I am sure it's a small cost for a big company like Champion.

Hell you even had a chance of sending them to the company I used and paying them to do the same independent test I put the other 3 cores through but you among others chose not too for what reason? Lack of faith? We will never no.

Further more it amazes me when Louis did the video for your coolers that he decided to take stock coolers out of the equation and your excuse was there is no point showing the data as your coolers are better because you say so.

I am not trying to be horrible but this is how it looks as an outsider and I am sorry you feel that our friendship is not so good because I never posted the graph which shows no comparison against anything.

To me you are a nice guy and a very good salesman and you believe in your products so that's all that should matter to you but I do not feel the same about all of them.

This is why I never posted or commented on it as I did not want to say what was on my mind in public because you would not have liked it.

 

Hi Tom,

Are these plug and play? IE- OEM type fitment or would I need to modify anything?
Also- I already have a Sportec tune. I'm thinking that if I simply install these I would have cooler air thus less timing retard when hot however does this mod also permit an additional amount of boost via a retune also?

PM sent with email address

Thanks, Walt

 

I apologize if you mistook my response, but it was comments like this that upset me. Honestly Nick...we've been talking to each other for how long? And you would STILL imply that we manipulate results just to sell our product? What have I (or Champion) ever done to suggest we manipulate results?

You've misunderstood my email. Nowhere in email did I say YOU...please read it again and you'll see it was not an attack on you at all.

I'm sorry no one else seems to think that this is a valid excuse, but to me it is. I can not afford a 997 Turbo for starters, so how could I ever replace one that I damage. South Florida is a CROWDED place with crowded roads. Going anywhere above 100 mph is dangerous. Unless you're out at 3am on a deserted road 50 miles from civilization, most other roads are too dangerous.

Small costs add up. Renting the track for a day would cost us about $6000. Why spend that when we've already spent tons of money in R&D to develop and test the parts. Not to mention the insane amount of money we keep spending to develop our new parts for every other Porsche model we work on. I'm sorry some people do not agree with our methods of testing and the proof we provide, but there are many who do. We have proper development and engineering in ALL of our parts....and we have not ever and will not ever manipulate results just to sell them.

I respect you, and I respect your opinion Nick...but what I take offense to is the comment about manipulating results. You can say you don't agree with us, or you can say you won't believe me until you see proof, and I'm OK with that. But when I do provide proof, whether it's to your standards or not, to say that it's data which we may have manipulated is offensive to me, and to the hard working team that spent SO much time developing these parts.

 

Hi Walt,

Yes, they are plug and play. Right into the original cages. We send them with a complete new hose kit and clamps as well.

They'll work great with your tune. We've used them on every build we do, some even pushing up to 30psi through 68mm VTG's.

Got your email addy...I'll send the datalog over in just a few.

 

Tom you know me and I speak my mind I have nothing to hide from you or anyone. I will be as straight to the point as I can without sugar coating anything. It might come across harsh but it's the truth at the very least.

I use the word manipulate as this is a possibility even without you knowing as you do not do the testing yourself or do you?

Now if you want to take offence to what I said then up to you.

I know full well you are there to sell Champions products and nothing more and in sales unfortunately you sometimes have to bend the truth a little to sell your products as you have to hit targets especially in a corporate environment like yours, otherwise there would be no point employing you to sell products?

This might not even be the case but it's a possibility and even unintentionally as you rely on the info that is relayed to you which is probably the case.

I see and hear this all day long my Fiance works for Porsche and the things I see and hear is a joke so I am not naïve enough to think that this doesn't happen in the tuning industry as well as the car sales industry.

She works in customer service having to deal with all of the false promises a car sales man has made to the customer to sell a car.

Also I think you are being silly as for champion to participate in an organized run way event probably cost's a few hundred dollars, no one said you had to hire it all to your self's, that is overkill.

At least that way you can get the car up to some proper speeds and get the car to heat up properly.

Like you said too Tom these are my opinions vs your opinions so it's nothing more than a debate.

It is not an attack on Champion as you guys have never done anything to me it is just I guess hard to prove certain products to certain types of people.

Maybe it's nice if Walt buys a set of coolers. Maybe he can data log his 997.2's, then do the same with yours to prove to all of us they do what they say on the tin and if they don't you give him a refund.

 

Here is my experience with CMS

This guys offer nothing but the best... i went to their location in Florida many times and they always help me out with all my needs, i have 0 complains for CMS and if i ever buy a Porsche again i will ONLY TRUST THEM with all the "possible modifications"

Tom is not the type of guy who will try to sell you everything he has... many times and stop me from pulling the trigger for unnecessary modifications. One good reason why i will buy my tune from them?

THEY HAVE OFFER WARRANTY Another reason? Many years of experience more than ANY other dealer in the USA and maybe in the world....

They are an authorize Porsche dealer, they create their own high performance products (in the USA no in China)... Champion Motorsport are the MOST RELIABLE for sure we can compare CMS products with any other place (in this case FVD) but the quality it will never be the same...

They do have a Dynno in their location in South Florida... So I'm pretty sure they test every product they have in the market...

Nick I see what you are doing and it's not working out... Don't do it anymore because it's not serious... You have a new business with FVD and that's fine, I hope you do well but sell your "products" by it's own merits... No need for you to be trashing other company's

http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/epic-tuning http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/di...holas-nicolaou[/QUOTE]

http://www.epictuning.co.uk

 

The OP asked a great question which I think got lost in the follow up answers. I have an EP exhaust and have been itching to tune the ECU for years. My issue has always been concern about destroying or severely shortening the life of the engine (I plan on keeping my car for at least another 5-7 years) and voiding my warranty. I no longer have factory but do have an aftermarket warranty. So I guess the question is, why would Porsche leave all the power on the table rather than put it in stock. Protect GT2 RS sales?? Or is it a safety issue? Can any of you tuners comment on the safety of the tunes, the longevity and issues with aftermarket warranties being denied (ex. to someone who say, has a turbo break and they try to blame the tune)?


Thank you!!

 

The same reason they won't put a turbo in the Cayman (yet) .

You also have to factor in that they need these cars to appeal to all buyers. For example, they need to run fine in the chance that someone fills the tank with 87, doesn't change their oil, etc. Not to say a tune will change this (unless factory safeties such as knock sensors are modified).

By optimizing air fuel ratios, timing maps, boost curves and other driving characteristics, you are not doing anything detrimental to the motor (assuming all factory safeties are left intact). If I had to name something that would be more stressed, it would be wear and tear parts such as tires and clutch.

We have multiple dealerships that offer our software (in addition to Champion hardware). If our software were to ever cause issues with the longevity of the car, companies such as Champion wouldn't be offering a supplemental warranty on tuned cars. We also wouldn't still be able to do what we do, as we certainly would have heard the complaints in the 20+ years we've been tuning cars.

 

I know everyone is enamored with more power but in most cases that is not what will make you quicker at the track. I've seen plenty of guys with 700hp turbos get passed by well driven Boxsters with 250hp. Much greater gains can be had with proper chassis tuning and driver coaching. With that said, the most important item to take care of when tracking your car is to have the coolant pipes addressed if you have not done so. By tracking these cars with the glued fittings, you are just exposing yourself and others to an unnecessary and risk. I've seen several cars go off track and wreck due to the coolant spraying onto the rear tires. I have personally been behind a car that had a pipe let go and I'm glad that it was on a straight and not a turn. Safety first. Just my $0.02..

 

While I am certainly not a tuner, I think there are other examples within Porsche and BMW that help answer your question. Porsche has, as an example, offered power kits (don't recall the actual name) for several models that allow for more horsepower for a given engine. BMW certainly does this as well. With BMW the only recommendation is to change plugs earlier. As you may know BMW has quite a sophisticated program with Dinan which not only matches the BMW warranty, but is a close enough partnership that BMW dealers sell and install the software. So there is room for improvement that is supported by manufacturers without adversely putting engines at risk.

I think most here would also agree that the Mezger engine is a very robust design and is able to tolerate a significant increase in horsepower (up to 650 or so) without putting engine or transmission components at risk.

 

+1

This is very good advice.