Engine is toast - what are the options?
#62
03-24-2015, 09:39 PM
TailWag, sorry for your troubles but, I would hate and honestly, don't have the money to go through this.
I think you have the same problem that I have in this same situation, I am to nice and honest, when I shouldn't be. I like people and wish the best for most but, there should be line at some point, right?
After reading your thread, I was thinking I needed a complete rebuild with my stock block but, for a simple 550whp and a tune?, why waste the expense? I would rather spend that money on tires learning my cars, capabilities.
Great thread, great audience, look forward to your future success with your car. E85 has my interest by the way!
I think you have the same problem that I have in this same situation, I am to nice and honest, when I shouldn't be. I like people and wish the best for most but, there should be line at some point, right?
After reading your thread, I was thinking I needed a complete rebuild with my stock block but, for a simple 550whp and a tune?, why waste the expense? I would rather spend that money on tires learning my cars, capabilities.
Great thread, great audience, look forward to your future success with your car. E85 has my interest by the way!
#63
03-25-2015, 07:46 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,666
Rep Power: 235 
Well, here is an update. I got the car back from Protomotive in June sometime last year.
The car ran great for a little bit, but shortly after I got it back, an 02 sensor went out. The sensor was replaced, but within ours, it would go out yet again. It was frustrating.
Long story...but Todd from Protomotive (I love these guys) was able to figure out the problem. There was a short in the ECU...
The previous owner of the car used to have a trackmate system with video cameras and when that system was removed, one of the leads was left connected to a harness that was connected to the ECU. With time, that wire started to rub against he cage of the car and eventually chewed through the plastic wrap on the wire.
The wire (bastard!) was removed and all problems were solved. I know the guy/mechanic that removed the track-mate system and he has always been extremely helpful. Everyone makes a mistake. I did not feel like raising an issue about this, except bringing it to his attention. He is a great guy and a good friend...but that oversight was what lead the motor to blow. *sigh*
Anywho, after the removal of that silly wire, Todd and his team tested the car to ensure I would not have any more issues and a month later I got it back for the second time. The car makes 630awhp/630lbstq and this combination is perfect for me. Power everywhere...and no heatsoaking at all.
Protomotive modifed the air box and tweaked a few things as well. I am on flex fuel and run e85 most of the time to keep things safe. It is fairly easy to access here in Kansas and I run e70-e80 blend most of the time.
That is good enough to put buttwhoops on ZR1's with 660 rwhp, GT-R's with 680awhp and vipers with 720rwhp...
. I ran another EVT here in town that runs 110octane and puts down about 680-690 to the tires and I had no problem putting a few cars on him.
On the corners the car is untouchable.
So...that stupid little wire was what blew the motor in the first place. If it weren't for Todd at Protomotive finding this issue and his tuning catching the issues w/the 02 sensors, a second catastrophic failure would have been only a matter of time. Scary thought.
The car runs 100x better than before...I am extremely pleased with it. I have NOTHING but good...nix that, nothing but GREAT things to say about Todd and everyone at Protomotive. From taking my calls at all times, to answering 1,000+ stupid questions during the whole process and going through every possible scenario when putting my car back together; these guys are the best in the business. I know we could have squeezed another 100awhp out of the car but we want to keep it running for a very long time.
I have had the car back for almost a year now...she is absolutely great!
The car ran great for a little bit, but shortly after I got it back, an 02 sensor went out. The sensor was replaced, but within ours, it would go out yet again. It was frustrating.
Long story...but Todd from Protomotive (I love these guys) was able to figure out the problem. There was a short in the ECU...
The previous owner of the car used to have a trackmate system with video cameras and when that system was removed, one of the leads was left connected to a harness that was connected to the ECU. With time, that wire started to rub against he cage of the car and eventually chewed through the plastic wrap on the wire.
The wire (bastard!) was removed and all problems were solved. I know the guy/mechanic that removed the track-mate system and he has always been extremely helpful. Everyone makes a mistake. I did not feel like raising an issue about this, except bringing it to his attention. He is a great guy and a good friend...but that oversight was what lead the motor to blow. *sigh*
Anywho, after the removal of that silly wire, Todd and his team tested the car to ensure I would not have any more issues and a month later I got it back for the second time. The car makes 630awhp/630lbstq and this combination is perfect for me. Power everywhere...and no heatsoaking at all.
Protomotive modifed the air box and tweaked a few things as well. I am on flex fuel and run e85 most of the time to keep things safe. It is fairly easy to access here in Kansas and I run e70-e80 blend most of the time.
That is good enough to put buttwhoops on ZR1's with 660 rwhp, GT-R's with 680awhp and vipers with 720rwhp...
. I ran another EVT here in town that runs 110octane and puts down about 680-690 to the tires and I had no problem putting a few cars on him.On the corners the car is untouchable.
So...that stupid little wire was what blew the motor in the first place. If it weren't for Todd at Protomotive finding this issue and his tuning catching the issues w/the 02 sensors, a second catastrophic failure would have been only a matter of time. Scary thought.
The car runs 100x better than before...I am extremely pleased with it. I have NOTHING but good...nix that, nothing but GREAT things to say about Todd and everyone at Protomotive. From taking my calls at all times, to answering 1,000+ stupid questions during the whole process and going through every possible scenario when putting my car back together; these guys are the best in the business. I know we could have squeezed another 100awhp out of the car but we want to keep it running for a very long time.
I have had the car back for almost a year now...she is absolutely great!
#64
03-25-2015, 07:48 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,666
Rep Power: 235 Sounds like my experience will be similar to yours.
I also am going the route of Carillo rods, Mahle pistons, oversized head studs and crank work. What is shuffle-pin cases? Perhaps I should have that done also? We are hoping the crank is ready this week and re-assembly will begin.
I had bent 3 rods and pulverized a bearing. It appeared that the worst bent rod was the culprit in wearing away the bearing. It took about a year for the bearing to wear completely away. We had noticed a drop of about 100hp at the wheels on the dyno but didn't know the rods were bent. At its peak, I dyno'd 651hp and 729lbs of torque (I should have expected problems but I just wanted more power). Have you dyno'd the new build?
I also am going the route of Carillo rods, Mahle pistons, oversized head studs and crank work. What is shuffle-pin cases? Perhaps I should have that done also? We are hoping the crank is ready this week and re-assembly will begin.
I had bent 3 rods and pulverized a bearing. It appeared that the worst bent rod was the culprit in wearing away the bearing. It took about a year for the bearing to wear completely away. We had noticed a drop of about 100hp at the wheels on the dyno but didn't know the rods were bent. At its peak, I dyno'd 651hp and 729lbs of torque (I should have expected problems but I just wanted more power). Have you dyno'd the new build?
I seem to be an upgrade or 2 behind you (same turbos) so I'll be sure to
be careful as I don't fancy a 20-30k bill!
#65
03-25-2015, 08:47 AM
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Coppell, TX USA
Posts: 677
Rep Power: 112
It sounds like fairly consistent theme. Keep the RWTQ in the 600-650 max range, and the rods will live...
#67
03-25-2015, 09:07 AM
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brampton,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 1,601
Rep Power: 203 This is why I came to the conclusion awhile ago that a stock based rewheeled 63.5-68 VTG is all that is needed and all the bottom end can handle reliably. Same for the 996 platform as a rewheeled k24 with a BILLET WHEELS (18or20) is the limit for that motor reliably. Based on that I thought unless I am building the motor, why spend the extra coin.
The flip side to that is packages like the AMS and SWITZER have made a lot more for a long time with out fail. I though unless I am going with a complete package I would try to keep my Tq down as the stock rewheeled twins has all the motor can reliably handle......as I DO NOT HAVE THE COIN AND PATIENCE for a 911 motor build!!
It is looking that stock motor for stock motor the 997.2's are just as quick/fast as our "legendary" Mezger motor.
Things get expensive VERY fast with this platform!
#68
03-25-2015, 10:34 AM
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 946
Rep Power: 82
our ECUs are extremely sensitive. A short can lean out a motor in a hurry...and the safety parameters, especially with the EVT tune, were not the best.
#69
03-25-2015, 10:36 AM
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 946
Rep Power: 82
exactly...we could have easily gotten another 100-120 lbs of torque...but why? That would have been asking for it. We turned it down to 630 to match the safe hp number.
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