I was ready to get a pair of these as an upgrade to my Proto 63s but Todd said the same thing - that they are only a worthwhile upgrade over the 63s if using meth/racegas/e85. Otherwise there may be a little improvement on pumpgas but there may be an increase in lag that would offset the improvement.


Bobby, I don't think you have to purchase the GT2 turbos in order to get the Champion 68s, but they do recommend their turbo inlet pipes in order to get the most out of the turbo. There have been some good numbers with these on racegas or e85 but I haven't seen anything on pumpgas to say that they are a significant upgrade over 63s. Forget dynos, I'm talking about performance numbers.

 

This is good info. It is always about on the road performance not dyno figures.

For example i took someone out in my car the other day and he was questioning why i built my engine for 40hp more (650hp) over the stage 3 car(600hp).

Then I took him out in it and he was so shocked he said this is more like 750-800hp so I just laughed my head off.

 

I guess the difference is like k24/18 vs K24/20's, you need higher octane to see the real difference in the bigger wheel.

With the 67mm do you have any limp mod issues from the turbos reaching computer max temp after a couple of pulls?

 

I don't have any issues with heat or dropping to limp mode - but I run it on e85 100% of the time.

 

Not planning a turbo upgrade this summer, but under $3k sounds nice!

I travel quite often to the US, managed to bring IC's over already

But this fall I plan for upgraded injectors and E85, so I assume I will be looking at upgraded VTGs soon enough

 

Our 68mm VTG's will run roughly $5500, and all we need is your OEM working cores as an exchange. You don't need to buy GT2 turbos..I'm not sure where that idea started.

We can do our 68mm upgrade on either standard 997 Turbo cores, or GT2 cores. It all depends on which car the cores come from. Right now I have a set in stock for a standard 997 Turbo so there would be no downtime if you decide to upgrade. You ship me yours, I ship you the 68's.

Also keep in mind that what makes our turbos different is our unique billet compressor housing, which is exclusive to our turbos. When designing our upgrades with Tial, their research and extensive knowledge of turbochargers told us that the OEM compressor housing becomes extremely inefficient when using anything larger then a 65mm exducer. That is why we designed the billet housing with Tial to accommodate the flow from the larger wheels without creating any excess heat or loss of efficiency.

 

Tom, would the 68s be worthwhile if only pumpgas was used? I realize that is a loaded question but am still interested in your opinion and the feedback you have gotten from your customers using pumpgas.

 

I too am very interested to hear what you have to say Tom.


I would also like to know how you get around the limits of the turbine housing?


I have heard that you can increase the compressor housing as much as you like but if the hot gases cannot escape then what is the point?


Hopefully you can clue us all up.

 

To be perfectly honest, the 68's are absolutely worthwhile if you plan to do an engine build down the road. Our 65mm VTG's can give you just about 600 wheel HP on pump gas. The 68's are capable of close to 800 wheel HP on pump gas, however we DO NOT recommend that on any car using the stock engine because of the higher boost levels required to hit that power. With a stock engine, we limit the 68's to about 675 wheel hp so the difference between the 65's is not that huge.

We do some modifications to the turbine housing as well, but not many. Even in its stock form, the OEM turbine housing can easily outspin even our 68mm wheels.

There are infinite amounts of technicality that went into the design of our housings and the overall efficiency of our Turbos, which is exactly why we partnered with Tial to make them. There are few companies out there who understand the way a turbocharger works like they do.

 

This was my understanding as well. If you have the GT2 turbos stock, you have the lager exhaust side that can really utilize the larger 68mm wheel, but if you have the standard 997 turbo you have the smaller exhaust side which chokes anything over 65mm.


Tom, so I am clear, the unique billet compressor housing is on the cold side, but the hot side is left stock other then some small modifications (ie clipping etc)?




Thanks


Bobby Ali


ba

 

That is correct. However, we have never experienced any limitation on the standard 997 Turbo turbine side. I'm not sure where that information came from or how credible the info is. Each 68mm VTG that we make is rated at 475 hp per turbo by Tial at their flow capacity, which is totally consistent with the real-world results we've seen when pushing them to higher boost levels.

 

Tom,
If one had all the following in place on a 997.1 TT, what else would be needed in addition to the 68's to yield 675 on 100/102 octane?

CMS IC's
CMS Y-Pipe
CMS Plenum
GT3 Throttle Body
BMC Air Filter
Tubi Race Exhaust
OEM Headers
BBI Underdrive Pulley
Aasco Al FW
Sachs RACE Clutch Kit with PMS Parts as well
CUP Car Shifting Cables
GMG WC Track Transmission Mounts
RSS Engine Mounts
GIAC Custom Flash supporting the above

I'm guessing a new Flash and a 5 bar fuel pressure regulator...??? The vehicle is used on track and not on the strip.

Thanks

 

He needs to come out so you can give him a ride in your car

 

The turbo inlet pipes cannot be understated at the higher power levels. If you're doing the other parts at the same time, adding injectors would give you much more headroom than a 5 bar. A comparison of the different modifications can be seen in this thread:

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...de-thread.html