Yeah not too shabby at all Thanks guys

 

Wow! Pump gas / meth injection on stock motor and is 5.5 amazing!


To be running 5.5 on real pump / meth and stock motor...... hmmm... I think I know my next set up!!
I am guessing with E85 you would need a build motor for the extra power, but at least with this set up it can grow with you as you build your motor if choose.




Very nice!

 

Thanks Bobby. We'll be on the dyno with the car again soon hopefully, schedule is absolutely crazy, but we're looking to see where we are with top end torque drop off with the latest changes in tuning in that 6k+ area.

One thing to keep in mind is that spraying methanol is in many ways more optimal than even running race gas such as MS109 such as lower IATs, reduced EGTs and higher octane. At the moment we're spraying dual 1mm nozzles which is around 1000cc. On average most cars we set up we set them to spray about 15% of their total fuel flow and we're a little more conservative/below that in this case given 1000cc injectors and their current duty cycles. Some more extreme setups will/do take meth injection to 25% of total fuel flow but that's not really our cup of tea, at least not on the stock motor and power levels we're currently at.

Dzenno@PTF

 

Very nice build guys!

Did you have to wire the failsafe through the ebc after installing the Alpha's?

 

Yes sir. The solenoid signal wire was intercepted through the Aquamist controller which effectively drops boost to wg pressure in case of any flow (oveflow/underflow/low tank level) condition.

 

Wondering if you guys had any updates on this project?

 

We haven't had a chance to do much more with the car for now other than just driving it.

Its running really really strong. We're simply monitoring it at these power levels and we plan to put in some time doing some acceleration tests, road course driving at our Mosport track and hopefully figure out a best way to set it up for getting it off the line quickly at our NHRA drag strip (Toronto Motorsports Park) to see what we can do and how the motor ends up taking it at these power levels including spark plug checking, oil sample analysis and compression/leak down testing.

Work is keeping us away from having fun with the car as I'm sure is the case with many others on this forum.

Keep in mind the goal of this project for us was to explore the platform through modification and tuning and see how far we can go with the stock motor while making careful choices on modification and tuning while trying for the most power it can possibly handle consistently and reliably. With the way we drive and test we can typically cover quite a lot in 20k miles what most owners likely won't ever do in their 997.1 Turbo's lifetime.

 

UPDATE: For some reason a few weeks back our OEM throttle body decided to go and instead of simply bolting a new one in we decided to go with the 82mm GT3 throttle body and the 82mm IPD plenum.

Our tuning hasn't changed a great deal from last time (results earlier in this thread). We just cleaned it up a little on the fuel side mostly. We're mindful of our stock rods still Boost and timing are ramped in progressively.

Onto the results, we did 702awhp/624awtq last time out on our AWD Mustang dyno. Boost was 22-23psi down low tapering up to ~26psi at 6k RPM up.

Today, after the throttle body/plenum swap we started lower on the boost front and ramped things up from there. We matched the previous OEM throttle body/74mm IPD plenum numbers at just 21-22psi! At this point we were in a bit of disbelief as we haven't considered the larger plenum/throttle body to provide measurable gains at these airflow levels and that it mostly contributed to throttle response..but we were clearly wrong!

Going up further from there and running the same boost as before with minor tweaks to fueling/timing we ended up at +66awhp +60awtq gained. Boost was actually about 0.5-1psi less than what we ran previously and we kept ignition timing in the 9-10 range at peak torque.

To say we're pleased with the performance gains out of such a simple hardware mod is an understatement. Same can be said for overall performance out of the car at this point along with some nice throttle response gains.

Here's a graph, 768awhp/682awtq. We're hoping to take the car to a Dynojet as well as people often ask for Dynojet numbers to compare online so we'll hopefully be able to slot that in some time soon and share.



One thing to keep in mind is that this is still on our pump gas and meth injection via Aquamist. There's a bit more to be had with race gas or E85 in the tank but given where we are torque and boost wise I'd say we are already up there in terms of what these turbos can provide and what we feel comfortable running torque wise on the stock motor.

This is also on the previous gen internally gated Tial Alpha 3076 turbos still not the latest shiny fancy HTZ wheel Xona stuff that was recently released.

We've got another local stock motor 997.1 getting ready with the hardware for tuning but its running external wastegates with custom exhaust manifolds, custom intercoolers, exhaust and a pair of off the shelf GTX 3076s turbos which will be a nice comparison as well performance wise. It will remain on the OEM throttle body and plenum for initial testing.

Dzenno@PTF

 

You guys are making serious top end on the stock motor and not going nuts with torque. Beautiful power curve no drop off all the way up. I want this so bad! I would put money on it that this is around 900whp on a Dynojet which is incredible! -Pete

 

Dzenno,


Very impressed with the whole package and am floored by the power increase with the GT3 throttle body and matching IPD plenum!! That is good news for me as I have the same set (throttle body and IPD)for when I am ready for your package!




Let me just get through this boost drop issues I am having and breath a little financially from that garbage and I might be hitting you up!


BTW THXS for the time and effort with those logs concerning my boost drop off issue my friend!


Bobby Ali


ba

 

thats great news...that would be my next mod ...can you please go over on why the xona stuff is the new way...what's the differences

 

Thanks Pete. We'll see in terms of Dynojet numbers, hope you're right

Hey Bobby, no problem at all on the help any time..in terms of the GT3 throttle body/82mm ipd plenum we are still quite surprised. I wish we had time at the end to swap back to the OEM throttle body/plenum and get results back to back but we don't have an oem throttle body handy to play with at the moment unfortunately.

One thing to keep in mind when it comes to mods such as this one is that what you have currently must be found to pose a flow restriction. In some cases people have bolted these throttle bodies/plenums and used with OEM VTGs (which we haven't had a chance to test the effects of power wise) and reported no differences. Boost and airflow that OEM VTGs provide compared to 3076s are quite different. I haven't found many or any of those reviews for that matter going to a dyno to confirm their results and most of it seems to be just seat of the pants reports. In our case this is as close as it was to bolting something on and seeing what difference it made comparing with previous results. However, it does bother me a bit personally that it wasn't a true unbolt oem/bolt GT3/plenum type comparison as we did have minor changes to fuel/timing, not boost. Regardless, we're just happy the car is making as much power as it is without any knock while being mindful of the torque and that its so much fun to drive!

Xona rotor change is mostly in the centre section which will further increase reliability in long runs that put a lot of stress on rotating assembly of a turbo. We're a Tial Sport dealer and have discussed the changes with them in some detail. Other than the new wastegate actuators they do have a new design on the compressor wheel (aka HTZ wheel) that Tial claims to be better than previous and that's something that would be interesting to see. Getting another 30whp in the top end for an improved aero on the compressor would be really nice to hit that 800 number on our Mustang dyno just for fun especially if it happened at the same or lower boost levels i doubt it but i've been wrong before...

Dzenno@PTF

 

do u have overlay with boost from the prior runs? also this is back on cobb where previous was AEM right?

 

I don't have the overlay. This particular run was with the AEM in place but we've got the same tune done via Cobb as well. We keep swapping back/forth on them to try different things as they become available.

How much/have you guys tried to play with cam timing and fuel for tuning spool up?

By the way, we just got the TPC DSC module on the car. Its improved suspension feel very noticeably and it seems to have eliminated wheelhop the car had in 1st and 2nd gear. We just started using it but so far very very pleased. Actually its making me debate if its worth putting on the Eibach rear sway and toe links that we've had sitting here for a while now given how well this has worked out but we'll see. A little premature on my end still to say anything for sure suspension wise.

Dzenno@PTF

 

Looking good Dzenno.

I am curious what you are noticing different in your timing numbers on the cobb vs the aem.

Also have you ever verified your timing during a pull with the AEM?

Garth