I want to put an end to the tanking value of my 991, is 997.2TTS the answer?
#31
05-11-2016, 12:57 PM
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 183
Rep Power: 22 
The argument of air cooled vs water cooled is the easiest one to make because you're comparing something of a bygone era to modern technology that is, for all intents and purposes, a dime a dozen.
The production number argument is not as easy to make because if you look at how many of them they made vs. how many still are in operation I think you'd be surprised at how few nice examples there actually are. The 991 is everywhere, those things are so common it's unbelievable but the 997 is a pretty rare car even today. I think the combination of the scarcity of the 997 and the general fondness toward that generation will keep them slotted above the 996 for eternity, but by just how much I don't know.
The production number argument is not as easy to make because if you look at how many of them they made vs. how many still are in operation I think you'd be surprised at how few nice examples there actually are. The 991 is everywhere, those things are so common it's unbelievable but the 997 is a pretty rare car even today. I think the combination of the scarcity of the 997 and the general fondness toward that generation will keep them slotted above the 996 for eternity, but by just how much I don't know.
#32
05-11-2016, 02:37 PM
The argument of air cooled vs water cooled is the easiest one to make because you're comparing something of a bygone era to modern technology that is, for all intents and purposes, a dime a dozen.
The production number argument is not as easy to make because if you look at how many of them they made vs. how many still are in operation I think you'd be surprised at how few nice examples there actually are. The 991 is everywhere, those things are so common it's unbelievable but the 997 is a pretty rare car even today. I think the combination of the scarcity of the 997 and the general fondness toward that generation will keep them slotted above the 996 for eternity, but by just how much I don't know.
The production number argument is not as easy to make because if you look at how many of them they made vs. how many still are in operation I think you'd be surprised at how few nice examples there actually are. The 991 is everywhere, those things are so common it's unbelievable but the 997 is a pretty rare car even today. I think the combination of the scarcity of the 997 and the general fondness toward that generation will keep them slotted above the 996 for eternity, but by just how much I don't know.
#33
05-11-2016, 03:21 PM
Just looking at the 996 pricing, there are some pristine examples out there that transact at what...$50K? Most of the asking prices for non-pristine examples are low $40s and high $30s now. So the delta between a collector quality and a normal car is not that much. I would bet the same spread applies to the 997's in a few years and for the 991's in 10-15 years.
The 996 was sold as a 1999 - 2004. MSRP was 120k to 140k (generally speaking), depending on options. The examples I can find on ebay that have less than 50k miles and are year models 2002 - 2004. Bidding is between 40k and 45K. For a roughly 12 to 13 yr old car, selling at about 34% of MSRP, that's not too bad if you ask me. Depreciation averages out to 130k-40k=90k/12yrs=7.5k/yr.
From 2005 to 2012, you've got the 997s. MSRP was 130k to 160k (generally speaking), depending upon options. The cheapest one I can find on ebay is a 2008 coupe for $58k with 43k miles. Its MSRP was 133k. 8 yrs later, the car has lost $75k in value, roughly 9.3k/yr. An 08 with 23k miles is $65k. Its msrp was $148.7k. It lost $83.7k in 8 years.
Depreciation is a part of owning these toys. Unless you keep the mileage down and have thorough service history, they all seem to lose 7 to 10k in value per year. When I was shopping around, I was concerned about depreciation and would price shop/compare all over the countryside. I finally pulled the trigger almost two months ago b/c I got, what I consider to be, a great deal! Not just the Turbo I wanted, but then some and I received a very favorable trade-in value on my vette.
To the OP's question, would the Turbo depreciate any less than C2S? It seems like it will based upon production #'s....fewer Turbos sold vs C2Ss. Still, the turbo isn't immune from depreciation. To keep the value up, you have to maintain the car properly. I can't tell you guys how many Turbos I came across that were "great price" but poorly serviced/documented. For me, buying one of these marvels was just that....a marvelous event! As such, I didn't want sloppy seconds/thirds/etc. I wanted a well put together high-performance toy that had been taken care of. Putting the car through its paces doesn't scare me...as much as poor service or quality care. Skimping on oil changes and brake flushes and so forth is not the way to ensure these supercars operate properly.
Maintenance aside, your starting price point is much higher with a Turbo than a C2S and so you have more distance to fall. I took the advice of many people on the forum and bought the best, low mileage example of what I wanted that I could afford. I don't buy new b/c of the depreciation shock. I buy quality pre-owned that is around 50% of MSRP or less.
Depreciation aside, buy the turbo and have fun!
Cheers
#34
05-11-2016, 11:05 PM
My $0.02, once you start worrying about depreciation on a car you currently own and drive then you're basically one step out of that car (basically you're saying the car isn't worth it's fun/ownership quotient anymore)! Personally I wouldn't buy a car because I thought it had hit some imagined depreciation floor...if you want to step into a 997 TT/(S), then do so because you understand what you're getting into and want to drive/enjoy it!
Longboarder's comment on the 997 vs 991 platforms is exactly why I haven't 'upgraded' to the 991 TTS, while its got tons of power and refinement over the 997 TTS, it trails the 997 TTS badly in Porsche character! Porsche simply engineered most of the fun out of the 991 in return for a more compliant ride, numb steering and clinical efficiency. I knew it wasn't for me after a test drive. The 997 TTS nicely bridges the rawness of the 993 era turbos with the technological evolution of the PDK era p-cars...my kind of Porsche and why I'll be hanging on to mine for a while...
Longboarder's comment on the 997 vs 991 platforms is exactly why I haven't 'upgraded' to the 991 TTS, while its got tons of power and refinement over the 997 TTS, it trails the 997 TTS badly in Porsche character! Porsche simply engineered most of the fun out of the 991 in return for a more compliant ride, numb steering and clinical efficiency. I knew it wasn't for me after a test drive. The 997 TTS nicely bridges the rawness of the 993 era turbos with the technological evolution of the PDK era p-cars...my kind of Porsche and why I'll be hanging on to mine for a while...
Last edited by akunob; 05-13-2016 at 08:38 PM.
#35
05-12-2016, 06:15 AM
The one thing that will hurt the 996's versus the 997's in the long run is that the "looks" of the car aren't worth the repair $$ risks versus a 997 which will keep the 997 much higher in value.
My gut says the cars will end up somewhere like this all said and done assuming an above average condition:
996TT Automatics- Low 30's
996TT Manuals- Upper 30's
997.1TT Automatics- Low/mid 40's
997.1TT Manuals- Low/mid 50's
997.2TT Manual and PDK- Low/mid 50's
If any have a CHANCE at appreciation it will be the 997.1 manuals with the Mezger and 3 pedals but that is a LONG LONG shot and nothing anyone should bank on....we can look at modern Ferraris as an indicator. When the normal 360 and 430 start to appreciate (not the Scuderia's etc which are already appreciating) then I think the Porsches have a chance.....
#37
05-12-2016, 12:07 PM
Where are you guys coming up with these values of 996TT cars in the $30s NOW?
I just looked in Auto Trader, out of 114 996 TT Cars for sale at this time, 24 of them are listed under $40K (most of which are over $37k) and 89 Cars are listed over $40k
Basically, right meaow, if you want a 996 TT under 100k miles that hasn't been wrecked be prepared to cough up mid $40s, there is not such a thing as a "clean" 996TT car under $40k, and if there is its an out-liar not a market trend.
As for 997 TTs only 1 in the entire country under $50k ($49,900) and that's a 100k miles car with 4 previous owners.
Even under $55k there is only 2 other 997 TT cars in the country(105k miles for one not a clean carfax for the other) the rest, 194 997TT cars for sale at this time are ALL over $55k and that is not going to change any time soon, there is a floor to car values, 996TT cars are already in that floor, and 997TT cars are also there, because you will always have at least a $10k gap between those 2 all other things being equal.
A few years ago Gen 2 viper guys were dumping them for high $20s low $30s...go find a clean GTS under $40k now...its very difficult, because the cars feel in hands of people that won't sell them, others got wrecked or stolen, and the supply dried up...suddenly the few that became available went for a premium, it happens to most special models of sports cars, and the TT cars are one of the most special P cars money can buy, so it won't be different.
Anyone who think there will EVER be a day when most 997TT cars will sell in the 30s or even low 40s needs to put down the bong.
I just looked in Auto Trader, out of 114 996 TT Cars for sale at this time, 24 of them are listed under $40K (most of which are over $37k) and 89 Cars are listed over $40k
Basically, right meaow, if you want a 996 TT under 100k miles that hasn't been wrecked be prepared to cough up mid $40s, there is not such a thing as a "clean" 996TT car under $40k, and if there is its an out-liar not a market trend.
As for 997 TTs only 1 in the entire country under $50k ($49,900) and that's a 100k miles car with 4 previous owners.
Even under $55k there is only 2 other 997 TT cars in the country(105k miles for one not a clean carfax for the other) the rest, 194 997TT cars for sale at this time are ALL over $55k and that is not going to change any time soon, there is a floor to car values, 996TT cars are already in that floor, and 997TT cars are also there, because you will always have at least a $10k gap between those 2 all other things being equal.
A few years ago Gen 2 viper guys were dumping them for high $20s low $30s...go find a clean GTS under $40k now...its very difficult, because the cars feel in hands of people that won't sell them, others got wrecked or stolen, and the supply dried up...suddenly the few that became available went for a premium, it happens to most special models of sports cars, and the TT cars are one of the most special P cars money can buy, so it won't be different.
Anyone who think there will EVER be a day when most 997TT cars will sell in the 30s or even low 40s needs to put down the bong.
#38
05-12-2016, 01:11 PM
Where are you guys coming up with these values of 996TT cars in the $30s NOW?
I just looked in Auto Trader, out of 114 996 TT Cars for sale at this time, 24 of them are listed under $40K (most of which are over $37k) and 89 Cars are listed over $40k
Basically, right meaow, if you want a 996 TT under 100k miles that hasn't been wrecked be prepared to cough up mid $40s, there is not such a thing as a "clean" 996TT car under $40k, and if there is its an out-liar not a market trend.
As for 997 TTs only 1 in the entire country under $50k ($49,900) and that's a 100k miles car with 4 previous owners.
Even under $55k there is only 2 other 997 TT cars in the country(105k miles for one not a clean carfax for the other) the rest, 194 997TT cars for sale at this time are ALL over $55k and that is not going to change any time soon, there is a floor to car values, 996TT cars are already in that floor, and 997TT cars are also there, because you will always have at least a $10k gap between those 2 all other things being equal.
A few years ago Gen 2 viper guys were dumping them for high $20s low $30s...go find a clean GTS under $40k now...its very difficult, because the cars feel in hands of people that won't sell them, others got wrecked or stolen, and the supply dried up...suddenly the few that became available went for a premium, it happens to most special models of sports cars, and the TT cars are one of the most special P cars money can buy, so it won't be different.
Anyone who think there will EVER be a day when most 997TT cars will sell in the 30s or even low 40s needs to put down the bong.
I just looked in Auto Trader, out of 114 996 TT Cars for sale at this time, 24 of them are listed under $40K (most of which are over $37k) and 89 Cars are listed over $40k
Basically, right meaow, if you want a 996 TT under 100k miles that hasn't been wrecked be prepared to cough up mid $40s, there is not such a thing as a "clean" 996TT car under $40k, and if there is its an out-liar not a market trend.
As for 997 TTs only 1 in the entire country under $50k ($49,900) and that's a 100k miles car with 4 previous owners.
Even under $55k there is only 2 other 997 TT cars in the country(105k miles for one not a clean carfax for the other) the rest, 194 997TT cars for sale at this time are ALL over $55k and that is not going to change any time soon, there is a floor to car values, 996TT cars are already in that floor, and 997TT cars are also there, because you will always have at least a $10k gap between those 2 all other things being equal.
A few years ago Gen 2 viper guys were dumping them for high $20s low $30s...go find a clean GTS under $40k now...its very difficult, because the cars feel in hands of people that won't sell them, others got wrecked or stolen, and the supply dried up...suddenly the few that became available went for a premium, it happens to most special models of sports cars, and the TT cars are one of the most special P cars money can buy, so it won't be different.
Anyone who think there will EVER be a day when most 997TT cars will sell in the 30s or even low 40s needs to put down the bong.
Agreed! After all, if you didn't think this way, you would not have started the thread..."Why buy a 997TT if you aren't looking for one / Build thread
I don't think the values will get as low as previously mentioned....especially for well kept examples.
#39
05-12-2016, 01:18 PM
Agreed! After all, if you didn't think this way, you would not have started the thread..."Why buy a 997TT if you aren't looking for one / Build thread
I don't think the values will get as low as previously mentioned....especially for well kept examples.
I don't think the values will get as low as previously mentioned....especially for well kept examples.
#40
05-12-2016, 01:27 PM
Regarding your Turbo, the pictures show it very well despite the 74k miles. Definitely an eye catching color. Congrats!
#41
05-12-2016, 04:48 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Mississippi for Now
Age: 42
Posts: 29
Rep Power: 10 Where are you guys coming up with these values of 996TT cars in the $30s NOW?
I just looked in Auto Trader, out of 114 996 TT Cars for sale at this time, 24 of them are listed under $40K (most of which are over $37k) and 89 Cars are listed over $40k
Basically, right meaow, if you want a 996 TT under 100k miles that hasn't been wrecked be prepared to cough up mid $40s, there is not such a thing as a "clean" 996TT car under $40k, and if there is its an out-liar not a market trend.
As for 997 TTs only 1 in the entire country under $50k ($49,900) and that's a 100k miles car with 4 previous owners.
Even under $55k there is only 2 other 997 TT cars in the country(105k miles for one not a clean carfax for the other) the rest, 194 997TT cars for sale at this time are ALL over $55k and that is not going to change any time soon, there is a floor to car values, 996TT cars are already in that floor, and 997TT cars are also there, because you will always have at least a $10k gap between those 2 all other things being equal.
A few years ago Gen 2 viper guys were dumping them for high $20s low $30s...go find a clean GTS under $40k now...its very difficult, because the cars feel in hands of people that won't sell them, others got wrecked or stolen, and the supply dried up...suddenly the few that became available went for a premium, it happens to most special models of sports cars, and the TT cars are one of the most special P cars money can buy, so it won't be different.
Anyone who think there will EVER be a day when most 997TT cars will sell in the 30s or even low 40s needs to put down the bong.
I just looked in Auto Trader, out of 114 996 TT Cars for sale at this time, 24 of them are listed under $40K (most of which are over $37k) and 89 Cars are listed over $40k
Basically, right meaow, if you want a 996 TT under 100k miles that hasn't been wrecked be prepared to cough up mid $40s, there is not such a thing as a "clean" 996TT car under $40k, and if there is its an out-liar not a market trend.
As for 997 TTs only 1 in the entire country under $50k ($49,900) and that's a 100k miles car with 4 previous owners.
Even under $55k there is only 2 other 997 TT cars in the country(105k miles for one not a clean carfax for the other) the rest, 194 997TT cars for sale at this time are ALL over $55k and that is not going to change any time soon, there is a floor to car values, 996TT cars are already in that floor, and 997TT cars are also there, because you will always have at least a $10k gap between those 2 all other things being equal.
A few years ago Gen 2 viper guys were dumping them for high $20s low $30s...go find a clean GTS under $40k now...its very difficult, because the cars feel in hands of people that won't sell them, others got wrecked or stolen, and the supply dried up...suddenly the few that became available went for a premium, it happens to most special models of sports cars, and the TT cars are one of the most special P cars money can buy, so it won't be different.
Anyone who think there will EVER be a day when most 997TT cars will sell in the 30s or even low 40s needs to put down the bong.
In 30 years, I think the 996TT will be $30-$45k depending on condition. The 997TT will run from $45-$60,000 depending on condition and options. No adjustment for inflation.
Personally, I think the 991 will not be worth more than the 997 because the tech in that car, screens etc, will seem silly in 30 years. The 997TT has less silly tech. Whether or not the PDK is silly tech by then - I don't know. If you go look at classics, anything with a "revolutionary transmission" is kinda of PITA. Manual transmissions are simple and reliable. Remember, today's tech will be a joke in the future - and hard to fix/find parts for.
#42
05-12-2016, 05:05 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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Age: 42
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So I'm using some extreme examples here to make my case, but I think the 997 will be more valuable than the 991 for several reasons, but one of them is the interior. I think the 991's techy interior and techy features will seem silly in 30 years. Just like these examples, two from Aston Martin, a Corvette that ran from 84-96, and now look at the 993. Classic, harmless, not "stunning" but nothing to dislike, nothing that gets in your way or interferes with driving. Nothing silly. And nothing that's going to break/impossible to repair. The 997 on the other hand, a big silly useless TV screen right in the middle - imagine how dumb that will look in 30 years? But it's nowhere near as bad as the 991. In the 997, just keep your eye away from the darn screen. In the 991? Gadgets everywhere. I love it RIGHT NOW. But in 30 years? It will seem like those Astons IMO. Just something to think about...
Last edited by snaphappy; 05-13-2016 at 12:19 AM.
#43
05-12-2016, 05:59 PM
The 996TT's have gone up into the $40's since everyone, across the entire internet has declared them the best automotive bargain.
In 30 years, I think the 996TT will be $30-$45k depending on condition. The 997TT will run from $45-$60,000 depending on condition and options. No adjustment for inflation.
Personally, I think the 991 will not be worth more than the 997 because the tech in that car, screens etc, will seem silly in 30 years. The 997TT has less silly tech. Whether or not the PDK is silly tech by then - I don't know. If you go look at classics, anything with a "revolutionary transmission" is kinda of PITA. Manual transmissions are simple and reliable. Remember, today's tech will be a joke in the future - and hard to fix/find parts for.
In 30 years, I think the 996TT will be $30-$45k depending on condition. The 997TT will run from $45-$60,000 depending on condition and options. No adjustment for inflation.
Personally, I think the 991 will not be worth more than the 997 because the tech in that car, screens etc, will seem silly in 30 years. The 997TT has less silly tech. Whether or not the PDK is silly tech by then - I don't know. If you go look at classics, anything with a "revolutionary transmission" is kinda of PITA. Manual transmissions are simple and reliable. Remember, today's tech will be a joke in the future - and hard to fix/find parts for.
#45
05-13-2016, 05:57 PM
Longboarder's comment on the 997 vs 991 platforms is exactly why I haven't 'upgraded' to the 991 TTS, while its got tons of power and refinement over the 997 TTS, it trails the 997 TTS badly in Porsche character! Porsche simply engineered most of the fun out of the 991 in return for a more compliant ride, numb steering and clinical efficiency. I knew it wasn't for me after a test drive. The 997 TTS nicely bridges the rawness of the 993 era turbos with the technological evolution of the PDK era p-cars...my kind of Porsche and why I'll be hanging on to mine for a while...