997TT Tiptronic Transmission – Power Delivery – Inconsistent Performance
#32
07-21-2007, 03:11 AM
Todd, great article - thank you.
Can I just clarify one point? Does this reduction in power in manual mode also occur on a standard car or is it confined to those with modified ECUs such as your EVT610?
Can I just clarify one point? Does this reduction in power in manual mode also occur on a standard car or is it confined to those with modified ECUs such as your EVT610?
#34
05-06-2008, 10:02 AM
GUYS...I NEED TO KNOW THIS INFO ASAP..AS AM ABOUT TO PULL A TRIGGER ON A TIPTRONIC BUT IF ALL THE MODS WONT WORK THEN IT WOULD BE BIG MISTAKE..I WANT AT LEAST 600WHP !!!
Please tell what you think or know
Please tell what you think or know
#35
05-06-2008, 10:54 AM
Why don't you just call Todd or Nate at EVOMS instead of digging up a 10 month old thread?
#37
05-06-2008, 12:44 PM
Curio..please control you mouth man...
Chees people..what is wrong with you..I search and read all info and try to gather information...and wanted to ask if anyone know any updated info on this..thus it phorbidden on this forum ???
I wanted to call I wound but I prefer to ask on this forum cause ther eis big time diff btw Russia and US and calling is not cheap either...if I would call about everythihg question I need to know..I would be without my pants soon...there is not point to particiapate ins this forum then...if I get all the info on phone...If I would leave in US it would be much easier to speak woth tuners...I would probably speak to all of them already and meet Curio, to explain copuple of things to him...LOL...give ME a brake guys...Relax and enjoy you life...post something relative to this topic not unnecessary comments...
Chees people..what is wrong with you..I search and read all info and try to gather information...and wanted to ask if anyone know any updated info on this..thus it phorbidden on this forum ???
I wanted to call I wound but I prefer to ask on this forum cause ther eis big time diff btw Russia and US and calling is not cheap either...if I would call about everythihg question I need to know..I would be without my pants soon...there is not point to particiapate ins this forum then...if I get all the info on phone...If I would leave in US it would be much easier to speak woth tuners...I would probably speak to all of them already and meet Curio, to explain copuple of things to him...LOL...give ME a brake guys...Relax and enjoy you life...post something relative to this topic not unnecessary comments...
Last edited by GT RUS; 05-06-2008 at 12:49 PM.
#38
05-06-2008, 04:18 PM
Chees people..what is wrong with you..I search and read all info and try to gather information...and wanted to ask if anyone know any updated info on this..thus it phorbidden on this forum ???
I wanted to call I wound but I prefer to ask on this forum cause ther eis big time diff btw Russia and US and calling is not cheap either...if I would call about everythihg question I need to know..
I wanted to call I wound but I prefer to ask on this forum cause ther eis big time diff btw Russia and US and calling is not cheap either...if I would call about everythihg question I need to know..
Tips versus manual...
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...7&postcount=37
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...7&postcount=35
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...3&postcount=32
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...80&postcount=1
Does EVOMS700 work with tip
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...6&postcount=49
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...5&postcount=19
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...0&postcount=13
And when the moderator tries to help answer your questions, you have the sense to get in a pissing match with him...https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...=128337&page=2
You can contact the guys at EVOMS without a phone call...drop a PM or email them. Similarly, AWE at http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/info/contact.cfm
. You're asking questions about 700HP kits that very few people actually have installed or have long term experience with. It's no wonder you're not getting answers.
Last edited by bbywu; 05-06-2008 at 04:25 PM.
#39
05-06-2008, 05:29 PM
Part 3
OK, so why was this happening? Well after some more testing, sleepless nights and pondering the possible causes, I remember feeling a throttle step down switch on the tip cars @ WOT (Foot mashed to the floor). Typically automatic cars have these switches which when depressed, the engine would back down load to allow the auto transmission to downshift to prevent transmission and engine damage and allowing for a smoother shift. I then wondered if this could be causing the conflict between the TCU and the ECU when in manual mode and stomping on the throttle. I did some more testing and discovered that this was causing the boost delay and late spool up as compared to the 6-speed cars.
<O
I did some testing back and forth using the same car and data logging procedures. The only change that I made was the way I pressed the accelerator pedal. If I pressed the pedal to the throttle switch but not far enough to activate it, the car felt amazing. If I mashed the throttle and activated the switch, the engine/transmission felt conflicted until about 3800 RPMS where it had a slight hesitation and then continued its power sweep normally beyond 4000 RPMS.
<O
I confirmed this procedure many times on the road and could get it to repeat itself EVERY time. The data logs confirmed my hypothesis as well which lead me to the dyno testing. I wanted to test this procedure on the dyno to see how much power is being lost in manual mode with this switch activated vs. deactivated. I was amazed as to the outcome and now know why some customers were having sporadic inconsistent results with their tiptronic cars.
<O
The HP dyno below shows the same EVT610 Tiptronic car tested with and without the throttle step down switch activated compared to a stock 997TT tip with the throttle switch activated. At ~ 3247 RPMS both the stock (blue line) and the EVT610 (green line) are making ~ 170 AWHP at this point with the throttle switch activated. The (red line) is the same EVT610 Tip car in 3<SUP>rd</SUP> gear at WOT without the throttle switch activated. Power at 3247 RPMS is at 300 HP which is 130 more than the other 2 runs with the switch activated.
<O
<O
This TQ dyno below shows the same EVT610 Tiptronic car tested with and without the throttle step down switch activated compared to a stock 997TT tip with the throttle switch activated. At ~ 3247 RPMS both the stock (blue line) and the EVT610 (green line) are making ~ 278 AWTQ at this point with the throttle switch activated. The (red line) is the same EVT610 Tip car in 3<SUP>rd</SUP> gear at WOT without the throttle switch activated. Torque at 3247 RPMS is at 483 TQ which is 205 more than the other 2 runs with the switch activated.
<O
<O
In conclusion, I am baffled as to how this could be occurring on this car and I am tempted to make a simple throttle step down defeat on/off switch to eliminate this problem from occurring. I would like to get input from tiptronic owners as if you have experienced this scenario and have felt this same thing under this type of driving. I do not own a tip car and do not know if most people drive this way. I was informed of a potential problem and was asked to get it solved. After figuring it out, I hope this information is useful and if we can make a simple fix for it, let me know and I will get it done. Sorry for the long post, but I felt it was necessary
OK, so why was this happening? Well after some more testing, sleepless nights and pondering the possible causes, I remember feeling a throttle step down switch on the tip cars @ WOT (Foot mashed to the floor). Typically automatic cars have these switches which when depressed, the engine would back down load to allow the auto transmission to downshift to prevent transmission and engine damage and allowing for a smoother shift. I then wondered if this could be causing the conflict between the TCU and the ECU when in manual mode and stomping on the throttle. I did some more testing and discovered that this was causing the boost delay and late spool up as compared to the 6-speed cars.
<O
I did some testing back and forth using the same car and data logging procedures. The only change that I made was the way I pressed the accelerator pedal. If I pressed the pedal to the throttle switch but not far enough to activate it, the car felt amazing. If I mashed the throttle and activated the switch, the engine/transmission felt conflicted until about 3800 RPMS where it had a slight hesitation and then continued its power sweep normally beyond 4000 RPMS.
<O
I confirmed this procedure many times on the road and could get it to repeat itself EVERY time. The data logs confirmed my hypothesis as well which lead me to the dyno testing. I wanted to test this procedure on the dyno to see how much power is being lost in manual mode with this switch activated vs. deactivated. I was amazed as to the outcome and now know why some customers were having sporadic inconsistent results with their tiptronic cars.
<O
The HP dyno below shows the same EVT610 Tiptronic car tested with and without the throttle step down switch activated compared to a stock 997TT tip with the throttle switch activated. At ~ 3247 RPMS both the stock (blue line) and the EVT610 (green line) are making ~ 170 AWHP at this point with the throttle switch activated. The (red line) is the same EVT610 Tip car in 3<SUP>rd</SUP> gear at WOT without the throttle switch activated. Power at 3247 RPMS is at 300 HP which is 130 more than the other 2 runs with the switch activated.
<O<O
This TQ dyno below shows the same EVT610 Tiptronic car tested with and without the throttle step down switch activated compared to a stock 997TT tip with the throttle switch activated. At ~ 3247 RPMS both the stock (blue line) and the EVT610 (green line) are making ~ 278 AWTQ at this point with the throttle switch activated. The (red line) is the same EVT610 Tip car in 3<SUP>rd</SUP> gear at WOT without the throttle switch activated. Torque at 3247 RPMS is at 483 TQ which is 205 more than the other 2 runs with the switch activated.
<O<O
In conclusion, I am baffled as to how this could be occurring on this car and I am tempted to make a simple throttle step down defeat on/off switch to eliminate this problem from occurring. I would like to get input from tiptronic owners as if you have experienced this scenario and have felt this same thing under this type of driving. I do not own a tip car and do not know if most people drive this way. I was informed of a potential problem and was asked to get it solved. After figuring it out, I hope this information is useful and if we can make a simple fix for it, let me know and I will get it done. Sorry for the long post, but I felt it was necessary
#40
05-07-2008, 12:33 AM
Not trying to play moderator here, but if you are sensing frustration from the community with your posts, it's because we're seeing repeat posts, cross posts, old posts dug up asking the same questions over and over again.
Tips versus manual...
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...7&postcount=37
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...7&postcount=35
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...3&postcount=32
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...80&postcount=1
Does EVOMS700 work with tip
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...6&postcount=49
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...5&postcount=19
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...0&postcount=13
And when the moderator tries to help answer your questions, you have the sense to get in a pissing match with him...https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...=128337&page=2
You can contact the guys at EVOMS without a phone call...drop a PM or email them. Similarly, AWE at http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/info/contact.cfm
. You're asking questions about 700HP kits that very few people actually have installed or have long term experience with. It's no wonder you're not getting answers.
Tips versus manual...
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...7&postcount=37
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...7&postcount=35
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...3&postcount=32
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...80&postcount=1
Does EVOMS700 work with tip
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...6&postcount=49
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...5&postcount=19
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...0&postcount=13
And when the moderator tries to help answer your questions, you have the sense to get in a pissing match with him...https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...=128337&page=2
You can contact the guys at EVOMS without a phone call...drop a PM or email them. Similarly, AWE at http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/info/contact.cfm
. You're asking questions about 700HP kits that very few people actually have installed or have long term experience with. It's no wonder you're not getting answers.
Beleive ME I did contract EVO dealers and got not reply...Contracted AWE through a Porsche dealer (who found one car fro me and AWE dealer) who they reccomended before and AWE tiptronic kit is not ready yet..should be ready by the end of the months and we dont know results yet !!!
Evo dealer said the kit is ready and cars are runing but I wanted to hear owners opinions and what they feel about it...Iundertand that there not many people with Tips installed this kit but I had to ask..sorry if its a porblem for you
Let dicuss this topic and cut this crap..It doesnt help anyone...I dont want fight with anyone nor want to make it personal like some people are pushing ME to do...I just want to learn things and gather as much information as I can...btw us I won an auction for nice 997 TT and I have to pay deposit but I dont want to make is mistake cause I want at least 700HP kit...
#41
05-07-2008, 01:45 AM
Maybe because they never return phone calls, have you ever assumed that, I was chasing them for months via email and phone calls and they never had the decency to return either, so I can see his frustrations.
#42
05-07-2008, 02:08 AM
Same here...but I didnt call them...try AWE..they seem to have quite good customer service...and very helpfull...
#43
05-07-2008, 02:28 PM
That's fine. It was meant as friendly help and advice. If you consider it as "crap," we'll let the rest of the community decide how much help they are willing to offer you.
Last edited by bbywu; 05-07-2008 at 02:49 PM.
#44
05-07-2008, 07:41 PM
dear tod i've a small short breif question
some times with my 997tt evo610 when i return the gear and hit the gas it shocks me with the jump and force and some time it feels silly and normal and it also need time to go
now as i understand you , you discover the prob and found a sulloution is that it ?
some times with my 997tt evo610 when i return the gear and hit the gas it shocks me with the jump and force and some time it feels silly and normal and it also need time to go
now as i understand you , you discover the prob and found a sulloution is that it ?
#45
05-08-2008, 12:45 PM
Hmmm..so you issue isnt resolved ???
Been told by EVO dealer that it work fine and there is no probs, so tht means that all issues have been fixed...
Is this thing that you have having is really a problems...???
Been told by EVO dealer that it work fine and there is no probs, so tht means that all issues have been fixed...
Is this thing that you have having is really a problems...???