"Fanboy". LOL....

 

Wait. Are you saying that in order for me to "objective", I'm supposed to ignore facts to make other people feel better?

Sorry, bro. It doesn't work that way. I know for a fact that euro cars are no faster than US cars, and that the fastest P-cars in the world overall come from the US. So I'm not going to deny that fact simply because I'm a moderator.

In my opinion an important part of a moderator's job is to tell the truth...which is exactly what I'm doing.

If you had payed attention you would have noticed that Kaizu...the person I was responding to, was comparing a 675 HP US car (Woodtster's) to a 950 HP Sportec, a 802 HP 9ff, and a 700 HP Manthey. Maybe it's you that's not being objective since you're apparently ignoring the posts that I'm responding to? Or maybe since he's European like you, he gets a pass. Hypocrisy much?

Let me explain. I don't care what "Stage" it is. That means nothing to me. I care what claimed HP it has. A Stage 1, 2 or 3 tells me nothing.

Actually, I first responded to the comparisons made by Kaizu..and then to follow up, I compared a 950HP US tuned car to a 950 HP 9ff car ad a 802 HP Sportec car (the fastest Euro cars you guys can find). And guess what? The US car is faster than both of them.

 

Wrong.

BS. Prove to me that the Sportec car and the 9ff cars were running with 2 passengers, on a flat road, with full tanks of US equivalent 93 octane pump fuel. I already know you can't.

My runs were made on a dragstrip, so it I had zero downhill. Plus, I am just an owner with limited funds and no support. I had no crew, I was on the tires that I drove to the track with, and my car was heavy and less aerodynamic. Sportec and 9ff are tuners with unlimited funds and equipment. They have full support crews, brand new tires, aerodynamically improved body kits and super lightweight cars. If I can beat their times all by myself, on some cheesy dragstrip in Maryland...I'd say that's pretty much a complete embarrasment for two of the supposedly top Porsche tuners on the planet.

Heck, my old car isnt even the fastest US car anymore.

Try again. First off, I have never in my life used a 1 foot roll-out. I start from a dead stop each and every time. Second, an EBC does not give you any more power. It only allows you to adjust your boost from minimum boost to maximum boost on the fly. Max boost is max boost, whether it's a setting on a EBC or the max boost ECU setting that 9ff flashes into the ECU. There is no advantge to an EBC when it comes to max power.

Please stop making things up as you go along.

Not me. I've seen some mags run slower times and some mags ridiculously fast times. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the 9ff and Sportec cars are even slower than the mags lead us to believe.

 

LOL...do you HONESTLY think your car is fast?? Look at the list below and see where you are currently ranked.

60 -130 mph (96.5-209.2 kph):

4.67 - Divexxtreme / RWD / 2 shifts
4.78 - Markski / RWD / 2 shifts
4.86 - dk996tt / 997TT AWD / 1 shift
5.64 - Todd Z / RWD / 2 shifts
5.78 - Keithta / 997TT AWD / 1 shift
5.93 - OhioGT2 / GT2 / 1 shift
6.08 - Chris Green / RWD / 1 shift
6.15 - DMK / RWD / 0 shifts
6.26 - Chinitowest / AWD / 1 shift
6.32 - Dr Jitsu / GT2 / 1 shift
6.45 - RenntechV12 / GT2 / 0 shifts
6.69 - Powell / AWD / 1 shift
6.73 - Acicchelli / 997TT AWD TIP
6.90 - Woodtster / AWD / 2 shifts
6.96 - Adam Bowles / AWD / 1 shift
6.99 - Eclou / 997TT AWD / 1 shift
7.06 - Zuluracerx / AWD / 2 shifts
7.25 - Colorinc / AWD / 1 shift
7.54 - RS38 / GT2 / 2 shifts
7.83 - Torresmd / AWD / 1 shift
7.84 - 9Eleven / GT2 / 1 shift
7.88 - Onelove / AWD / 1 shift
7.89 - Pierre996TT / AWD / 0 shifts
7.93 - KPG / AWD / 1 shift
8.14 - MBailey / AWD / 1 shift
8.25 - Adam Bowles / 1 shift
8.27 - 997ttguru / 997TT AWD / Tiptronic
8.40 - TXGold / RWD / 1 shift (stock K16's)
8.76 - Scotty slc / AWD / 1 shift
8.86 - Haudimal / 997TT AWD / Tiptronic
9.53 - Woosh / AWD / 1-shift
9.54 - Roadsterdoc / AWD / 1 shift
9.56 - Topgun / AWD / 3 shifts
10.06 - Panas001 / AWD / 1 shift


You have a LONG way to go before you start running with the big boys. With your "Stage 3", I don't even think you'll beat Acicchelli's 6.73 in his full-weight, 997TT TIP with nothing but bolt-ons. But you're welcome to try.

In the meantime, let me give a little piece of advice that I think will help you out in the future should you choose to pay attention to its meaning....

..talk shlt, get bit.

 

FVD is a good company... I had the tuning products for 3 years.... good overall philosophy... very conservative but the cars last....
I met the owner and even hung out at the company for a few days.. they took care of me as if I was one of their own....
With that said, euro tuners have a different approach to tuning.... I think most of the stuff is over engineered and sometimes way over the top.... they run the system at 50% of the capability meanwhile we run it at 100%.... but neither approach is wrong just different for a different type of a client.

 

Divxexxtreme; as i'm saying for the 100th time, that run was a bs. Do you know the conditions of that run? what if there was 2 persons on board? with full tank? and after a lot of acceleration test?

Because I don't even know how was it, but you seem so sure

I did 100-200 kph in 6.6 seconds with 1 person and adequate fuel level. What should be the 60-130 on the same run? Lets add 1 seconds, even though it's funny, and that will make it 7.6 .. But I'll do that run for you with my current car, and with next mods. It won't be long, I've ordered it today

Still faster than AWE stage 2, even though I'm not using race fuel, right?

You'll see the evidences soon, don't worry

You're trying to prove something over nothing.

By the way, 4.67 is more than impressive, congrats

 

MARKSKI ; my point in whole this discussion is.. US tuners and European tuners are releasing a kit.. One of them say its 630-640 hp, the other say 700 hp.. on the exact same kit

Doesn't matter who is faster, the numbers will be very very close in every condition. Shouldn't the 700 one walk away from 6xx one? If it was a TRUE 700 hp car

But as we can see on my example above, even though i gave a pretty big (even BS) difference (1 second) between 100-200 kph and 60-130 mph run, my FVD Stage 2 car is still faster than AWE Stage 2 car. I'm pretty sure that will also be the fact on Stage 3. And we can clearly see who is right from how badly people hung out on a totally crap run and that graph of mine here has been sent without even asking me. That shows the real purpose I also have some 8.x 100-200 kph run, if that makes them happy, i can send it here and act like this is my car's max performance

I would honestly buy AWE 700 kit if it was really faster than the kit i'm going to buy, I mean why not? it's cheaper and FVD is not my sponsor or anything . And I use their intercoolers and I'm more than happy with the results. That is one good advantage of US Tuners, because of the euro/dollar conversions.

 

More like 7.7 or 7.8. Below is a run from a 996TT S with hybrid turbos and a tune that ran a 6.48 100-200 kph during a 7.66 60-130 run.

If you ran a 6.6, that would be equal to a 7.7-7.8 60-130 mph run, putting your car right between TorresMD and RS38's times on the list.

Nope. Eclou ran 6.0 100-200 kph during his 6.99 60-130 mph in his AWE car. That's a lot faster than your best run.

That's it. Keep running your mouth. You better hope your car lives up to all this hype.

That run was a 4.10 100-200 kph with 2-shifts. Pretty amazing what these "slow" US tuners can do, huh?


6.48 100-200 kph/7.66 60-130:

 

So you keep insisting not to understand what my point is.. Fine by me, I'll send my datas and everyone will see the result.

You're giving me eclou's AWE 700 kit car's times to compare my 570-580 hp car. I said I do not believe its 700 hp, but its clear that it is not less than 630-640 hp with the modified VTG's.

I guess everbody surely can see who does not know this stuff after you giving me this funny comparison

So I expect that you are going to compare some 1000hp tuned p-car with my Stage 3, when I send you the numbers

By the way, thanks for proving me right. AWE's stage 2 car is claimed to have 610hp, my FVD stage 2 car is claimed to have 555 hp. I got some other goodies such as plenum and intercoolers (which by the way, we've clearly seen on our tests that intercoolers does not have any effect until 230-240 km/h, so only plenum is my extra), so its around 580 hp's now.

So that means I'm right about american's "hp optimism", which is the whole point anyway.

By the way, here is my 60-130 mph and 100-200 kmh run.. Enjoy

Anyway, I don't care what you say from now because I'm not willing to argue with a man who does not know this stuff. As I've said before, the numbers will talk.. again

 

Scott,

I'm sorry i can't see a comparison with 950hp european vs 675hp USA car here.

As Kaizu stated;

" RS Tuning 680hp 22.0 seconds

Gemballa 750hp 21.7 seconds

9FF 780hp 21.2 seconds "

By the way, do you think that your car had 950 crank hp while it put down 890 to the wheels? So you are claiming app. %9 drivetrain loss for your car right?

I do NOT say Euro cars faster than USA cars, its completely a difference debate. You didn't get my point here.

I want to compare similar setup Euro cars with US cars, and i think most US tuners claiming higher hp figures than Euro tuners. with similar setups. There isn't a difference like that.

By the way, similar setuped AWE car is NOT faster than 997ttguru's car. See the latest post. However this was not my point.

Since i'm also programming ecu's of some cars, i know that there won't be a 60hp difference on similarly setupped cars running same boost levels with same octane fuel. It can be realistic for people who don't have technical tuning knowledge but I won't believe that type of marketing i'm sorry.

Another fact is, Europeans do NOT use race fuel during the tests. We have 98 octane pump fuel which is the equalivent of 93-94 octane pump gas in USA.

Check this out; http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/R...RONMONPON.html

Also, how many USA tuners test their car on with long highway top-speed runs? I couldn't find one, if you have some examples other than some short highway rolls, i would be happy to see it.

 

“Blah, blah”…all we keep hearing is how we will all see the results. How about you quit running your mouth and instead produce some results to back up your arguments?

I just assumed you were talking about Eclou's car. I don’t pay attention to “Stages”. So which AWE car were you trying to compare to? Be specific this time so there's no misunderstanding. Tell me exactly which car you mean (not just the Stage) and I will tell you if I have a file for it.

Also, go to this website and tell me where you a see a “Stage 2”: http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shar...PPT=Drivetrain

Continually saying "Stage" 1, 2 or 3 doesn't tell me anything. I need to know the HP numbers since different Stages mean different things to different tuners. Plus, most US tuners don't even use the term "Stage" IRT kits any longer.

So you're saying you really don't know how much power you're making. You say you have "goodies and other things", and you are guessing it only makes 580? LOL…how convenient for you argument!

What car is “optimistic”? Eclou’s car is 7/10’s of a second faster than yours from 60-130. Adam Bowles is a 650 HP car that ran a 6.96. I’m not even counting the .25 second shift delay that you don’t have to deal with due to having a TIP. Since it takes ‘approximately’ 20 wheel HP to gain 1/10 of a second in 60-130…that puts Eclous and Adam’s cars at around 120-140 more HP than yours.

So I guess they are indeed making quite a bit more power than you are.

The worst part about this discussion is that you don't even recognize your own ignorance. You continually confuse the conversation with your nonstop misstatements.

 

Right here:

He was talking about the 802 HP Sportec SPR1 and the 950 HP 9ff GT3RS GTurbo. Both of which ran a 18.1 and 18.9 in magazine tests. And both of which are slower than a US tuned car from 0-200 and 0-250 kph.

My car was only making 830 the wheels when I ran those times (that's why I clarified "with GT30s'"). That's using 12.5 % loss...the accepted number for a RWD P-car. The car now has GT35's, makes 60 more rwhp...and is significantly faster than it was with GT30s.

I do realize what you're saiyng, but I disagree. I proved it with my example of a 950 HP 9ff car running slower than my 950 HP (and 250 lbs heavier) Proto car. Woodtster also proved it with his heavy AWD 650-675 HP Proto car outrunning a RT-12 in every possible acceleration measurement.

Some cars make more power than others, that's a fact. But that applies to both Euro and US tuned cars. Generalized statements that imply that US tuned HP is exaggerated is pure BS.

Okay...

That's very interesting, thanks.

But all you guys have to do is retard timing and increase boost. You'll make much greater power on lower octane fuel. We can do the exact same thing here in the US, but since we have access to so much race fuel...we choose to run race gas files to get the most out of our cars. Do you seriously believe it's difficult for a US tuner to optimize a 93 octane program the same that you guys do? It's a cakewalk. The difference is, it's not the optimal way to tune the car...so we use multiple octane files and/or EBCs to take advantage of our access to race fuel.

My car easily made over 700 rwhp (800 crank HP) on 93 octane..and it wasn't even optimized for it. I could have made much more power on 93 octane if I had asked my tuner to do so.

My point is that whether you guys are tuned for 93 octane or not...it's not anything to brag about, nor does it prove a European tuning advantage exists. It's simply what you guys need to do due to where you're located. We don't need to do it...so we don't.

We don't have highways we can do that on. The only thing we have is the Texas Mile. Wide open throttle from start to finish for an entire mile...multiple times.

http://www.texasmile.net/

 

When you add intercoolers, headers your car is no longer what I would consider stage 2. The EVOMS guys called that a stage 4. Add the plenum and you have stage 4.x. I never tested the AWE stage 2 car with additional headers, intercoolers, and RSS plenum, but the fact that you still don't run any faster despite having those added mods and without the shift penalty would make me wonder how you can make the claim that the FVD kit stage 2 is faster than the AWE stage 2?

 

I have not seen someone that ignorant on a particular subject, but still makes judgements without hesitation before. You can not even understand the irony I made about 1000hp car vs FVD Stage 3 car. That's pathetic.

I'm not going to comment on your messages anymore. But there is just one thing about this you said :

There's no advantage of tip vs 6spd, because the drivetrain loss is more than manual (around 5% extra), so that makes the shifting advantage disappear.

Consider this info as a gesture of me to you, you learned a new thing today

 

I did that run without intercoolers and IPD plenum. I can say that based on the data time. I still got the invoice, if you want a proof i can send it to you. (Also you can ask Mike from AWE).. But I don't see that's so important as change the stage level.. Because the IPD plenum gives only around 10 hp (RSS told its 43 ) and intercoolers are only effective at around 230-240 km/h and higher.

so I only got headers as extra at that time.

and about the shift penalty, I suggest you to read above. there is no such thing.

and if you read the other posts, I'm not claiming it's faster, I'm claiming it's not slower, if not faster. (I really don't care who is "that little" faster), but AWE Kit is claimed to be 610hp (without even having plenum and/or intercoolers), FVD Kit is 555 hp. Oh, and plus headers

And i'm also only 0.68 seconds behind with the 120-125 hp difference. Don't you think it should be at least 1 second with that amount of difference?

I guess you see my point.