For the same reason I've measured RUF 590's that barely ran faster than 500 HP US cars. Not all cars perform the same, even with the same kits. The power varies somewhat between them, regardless of tuner. You also have the variables of the driver, environmental conditions and power under the curve vs peak power.

You haven't backed up anything.

-You claimed after your Stage 3 is done, it "should be better than any 700 kit in US market". I see zero evidence of that. Claim not proven.

-You claimed that your Stage 2 "performs really close to AWE 700 kit". I disgaree. I think the AWE 700 kit wallops your car. Claim not proven.

If you are talking about your car versus Eclou's car when it was a AWE Stage 2, granted, you ran the same time....but with a .3 to .5 second advantage due to having a TIP. So no, I honestly don't believe you've proved anything yet.

 

No, actually that's not true. What you said was this:


No mention of "technical details" whatsoever. I get the impression that you don't follow through with that you say, so I won't hold my breath about getting any 60-130 files from you with your new setup either.

 

Guru...when you get some actual results from your car with your new setup, let us know. I'll be happy to review the results. Until then, we're done.

 

the PE650 kits are on 2wd 996 GT2s and lightened awd 996tt's. IIRC none of them have any cats, and they use very lightweight flywheels and clutches. My car has no lightweight mods - seats, interior removal, flywheel etc. Recently a PE650 ran against an AWE700 car here:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...4-post123.html

You have proved the FVD stage 2 (~$7k) needs a plenum, headers, and intercoolers (+$5k in parts alone) added before it matches the AWE stage 2 car(~$7k). It is still good performance (faster than a 997Gt2) , but adding the additional items would no doubt would make the AWE stage 2 car even faster, and I would rather get the same performance for less money and labor.

 

Did you even read my answer to you above? I did not have plenum and intercoolers when i did those times. Only headers.

If I even had those, plenum makes max 10hp, I doubt that makes any difference. Intercoolers are only effective at much higher speeds. If we would talk about the 100-250 - 200 - 250 km/h times, than intercoolers should have been the issue.

You're right about the money thing though.

 

Divv, you seem to be a true professional when it comes to straight line performance and Porsches. And the cars people like you have/had in the forum are one of the fastest ever.

But I still have to mention we have no data for the fastest euro Porsches, people don't like generally any kind of publicity here, if you don't belive, come here and you'll see that the whole society just isn't "open" like in the States (there's some 1000hp Porsches on the streets but the owners just keep low profile)

Anyway I write this once so you could understand me a bit more.

All in all MY point (I do not know what the other euro guys think here btw!) was that euro tuners rate their power levels quite a bit lower than US tuners. That does not mean any tuner would be any better.

Why I say so...Well I think it's good to give some examples, here's just some:

1. I noticed on the Autobahn when testing that a Techart 530hp 996tt is as fast as Evoms 610hp 997tt. I think you should see the huge rated power difference!? But nope. And then I saw some impressive times done by RS Tuning cars and Manthey cars (yet one example more for you guys, back in the day Manthey's 680hp 996 did something like 8.9 seconds 0-200km/h in a magazine test with street tires and passenger etc...Quite good don't you think for only 680hp )

2. If a 996TT full weight 685hp (Woodster's car, which was marketed as as 700hp for me ) did a 27.0 seconds 0-300 km/h...And a 997TT full weight (with passenger and a full fuel tank, 1630kg btw!) RS Tuning 680hp did it in 22.0 seconds, there is a huge difference, isn't it?

3. So this comes down to my main point, about the rated power levels in different kits.

An example:

EVO 700hp product list from: http://www.carzi.com/2008/06/24/evol...bo-997-tuning/ (evoms.com seem to be down)

FVD 610hp product list from: http://shop.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/997_TT_GT2-126/-/-/item/item_details/VID_3821582-VCD_98423461-gid_34-sort_3-display_5-item_FVD99710023/ENGINE-Tuning-TuningKits-FVD99710023-997-Turbo-Level-3--(610HP-594TQ).html

Techart 580hp product list from: http://www.techart.de/techart/showca...ang=en&prog=77 (in reality the car doing 10.803 seconds 1/4 mile on a poor track with 20" bling street wheels has this kit, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBWK-...eature=related , are the 997TT's doing 10.8 secs in US advertised as only 580hp? That is my point, same kits but different numbers...)

Anyway, see the parts used, the turbos in those kits are basically the same: It seems EVOMS can produce 90hp-120hp MORE with basically just adding intercoolers!?!? Isn't that a huge power difference with intercoolers!?

And if you see state of art RS Tuning...Their 680hp kit includes a 3.8l conversion and a lot more...

So my opinion stays the same. In my opinion, with the basically same kits US tuners advertise quite much more hp. That can be due to many things like dyno process etc...And that does not make any tuner worse.

By the way fastest Porsches on straight line in my small country in Europe are US tuner Porsches (and I have recommended those kits as well) so I'm not hatin' anyone. Things seem to get different when visiting the neighbouring countries though...

 

Thank you for the kind words.

Okay.

I understand what you're saying, and I do realize that in certain cases, your argument holds water. I'm just pointing out that I have witnessed the opposite occur as well. Euro cars performing worse than they should for their claimed HP. It definitely goes both ways.

Based on my experiences and test data, I think it's entirely innaccurate to state that across the board, Euro cars make more HP than their US counterparts at the same rated HP levels. I will agree that variances exist...but where I disagree with you is that I feel they exist on both sides of the coin. Not just with the US tuners.

Anyway, I respect your opinion, and I really appreciate your mature toner and approach towards the debate. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, my friend.

 

I would say in support of Scott's observations of variances - at the Texas Mile in 04 or 05 the (996) Ruf RTurbo 590hp was 1 mph slower than the (997) Rt12 650hp. Both cars were run by the same owner at the same event, so one could throw out any variables that would give bias or an advantage to either car.

 

Here is the core of the problem:

Once upon a time, Europe was full of real men: Vikings/teutonic warrior types and other seriously bad *** dudes who would invade your country rape your women, pillage your stuff and then set up a hegemony.

I mean seriously, what in the hell happened to the Scandinavian people?

Kaizu, none of this is directed at you. You are OK.

But I digress....the unwillngness to push your cars HP limits has left the euro tuners way behind our power levels here in the states.

 

Oh and 997ttpoopoo,

My car is a hybrid Proto GT 700. Why don't you run your queer little euro tuner against me at the Supra nats?

I will pay for your trip if you win, you pay me if you lose?

 

Wow...are the gloves off or WHAT!

 

Since Scott sold his 996TT I feel that the least I can do to represent

 

I've told that I'm done arguing about this until I get my kit, but since there's a challange here, I thought I should answer.

I don't think it is very hard to understand what I say, if you read the above posts, but since you don't seem to got it, I'll explain it one more time.

I'm not claiming my car will be faster than your US 700 hp cars (I mean it can be faster or slower, with maybe 0.003 seconds difference)

But my car is claimed to have a 620-630 hp at the same time US car is claimed to have 700. And there should be much more difference with the claimed HP's.

Hope it's very clear now.

I don't know about your car, but if they are no different than AWE700 or similar kit equipped cars, there should be nearly no difference.

And, unfortunately I do not currently live in States

 

Not in the states? Your location is NYC, does that stand for New Yak Country?

In any event, get a drift box, Chief.

 

Wow...you guys still didnt come to the conclusion...

May those HP diff becomes from the DYNO Machines and petrol they use...Most of US tuners HP clims done on Race fuel, where us Euro tuner use pump 98 or 100 at the that is why Techart 630 TipS here on stock 19 wheels runned 10.78 here from 2500 Rpms...and other car in Hungary runned 10.88 with 20 wheels....On other hand 9ff 997 TT here with 780 HP kit also TipS is only starts to catch 630 HP car after 3rd or 4th...off the like Techart 630 HP VTG kit smokes 9ff kit with I think G30s turbos...

Manual vs TipS here...off the like TipS is always faster...even and in 1/4 even faster then chipped manual but of course drivers play important roll and it not as easy to get most performance out of manual TT as off TipS...

As example before I use my previous 997 TT with SPI750 kit...0-60 in 2.4 and 0-100 in 5.9... 60-130 -6.3....proves that car makes over 700 HP...

and should be as fast a Mathley 996 680 hp car 0-200 at least...but we shouldnt compare 996 and 997 TT mod cars...they are diff...