If the spring rate of an H&R is less than stock and, due to lowering, the suspension travel is less, this means that a smaller force will bottom out the suspension. Force equals stiffness times displacement. If the springs are progressive(nonlinear force/displacement ratio), this would be an indication that the springs might be very stiff when compressed. Looks like a recipe for a real bad ride over rough pavement & potentially reduced shock service life.

 

It lowered the car about 1' all around...

see below link for eye candy... It is a perfect drop for my taste and it rides nice. Under sport mode, it is perfect as it does not have that bottoming out effect or too floaty! But if someone is looking for a full out suspension for occasional track dates, i would suggest getting a better coilover system with more adjustability.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=85212

 

How about doing it the right way instead? You do have a $150K car for crying out loud

Don't they have PSS9's for the pasm cars yet?

I still can't figure out why people would be appalled at putting just springs on a performance car, but since full suspensions are not available yet for this car, it's somehow acceptable.

I wouldn't do anything less than replacement shocks and springs.

 

here's a link for some PASM equipped PSS9's:

http://shop.fvd.de/?VID=272580&VCD=9...play=20&F=PSS9


Let's not hear this spring upgrade non-sense from you new turbo owners any more. Save the springs for the civics

 

well since manufacturers often have spec'd their cars using different springs (height and thus rate) with the same dampeners for years - Porsche, Mercedes, BMW included - there is not a compelling reason to avoid it on a new dampener, especially when the height difference is minimal (15mm). The problem lies in swapping springs on a dampener that has already has the seals and piston worn in after several thousand miles.

 

i installed my springs before any coil over systems were available in the market. it is not a cost factor but availability in my case. But after learning how the car reacts and handle with springs alone, I am content to leave it for awhile.

 

while what you are saying is correct, the problem is that aftermarket springs drop the car considerably more than the factory springs do. taking 35-40mm off stock suspension travel is a lot. dropping the car that much on stock dampers will wear them out very quickly. not to mention that significant reduction in travel makes the handling suck when really pushing the car. it's hard to notice during light spirited driving as the lowering counteracts the loss of damping. however, start pushing the car really hard and you'll see what i'm taking about.

your stock dampers will wear out very quickly with lowering springs. when we pulled my stock suspenion out with lowering springs (cargraphic) i could compress the dampers by hand. there were maybe 8K miles on the spring shock combo and maybe 16K total on the car. don't forget factor in the cost as you'll have to do this install twice (including alignment) in fairly short order depending on how often you drive your car.

i'm not trying to trash springs. well, maybe i am however, if pasm and non-pasm equipped aftermarket suspensions are available now (i know this is a recent development and was not an option for some of you), why in the world would anyone sacrifice the performance of their brand new cutting edge prosche turbo to save $1500? it was night and day when i switched to pss9's with gt3 sways from stock and stock with springs.

 

Deputydog.

I understand your point and agree with it. The problem I have is that for some - its not always the affordability as many of us on here can afford to drop 10K on a suspension setup - its more so the cost benefit to us. I have always gone with Coilovers in the past either with Bilsteins PSS9 or Ground Control but the cost for the BWM M cars I have owned was beneficial for the return it gave me. I spent 2300 for a street/track setup from Ground Control plus another $450 for alignment, installation and corner balancing.

Any PASM enabled setup right now is running between 5500-7500 for the part and another $500-900 for installation, alignment and corner balancing.

For me its the drop that I want as I am pushing 20's and I know that is not the best setup for very hard street driving let alone any track time. But I have a set of 19's that I can put on or buy a used set of C4S wheels to do such a thing in 18's or perhaps 19's.

I went with springs because for what it does - it does for me well. Could I perhaps wear the dampers prematurely - yes but I am willing to see how long it will take.

If my current springs only take 20-25mm off the travel then I am okay with that. If what you mentioned that it takes 35-45mm I can see where that problems comes into play.

So far I haven't seen a car dropped 35-45mm from any spring. You mentioned cargraphics which is H&R. The H&R spring so far has the most aggressive drop on the cars which is 25mm to 30mm(max).

Show me the $1500 savings and I am willing to put a set of coilovers on right now. I am looking for a lowered stance and not track performance. I can't justify in my mind spending 8K to essentially lower my car. At least not at the moment.

If you use the Cost of the Car reasoning then would it apply that if M3 owners are willing to spend 5-7K on set of rims on a 60K car - that at 140K car we should spend 12-17K? and not complain about it?

A little sarcasm there btw.

Friendly debate.

 

I posted the link to the FVD setup. After the Euro conversion, it costs around $3700 US plus install. Sounds reasonable to me. You'll spend at least a grand (probably more) purchasing and installing springs. The-non PASM units are even less money.

You're right about the TT lowering spring drop. It's not as aggressive as springs for other Porsche models. I can only assume the 997 TT is lower from the factory than other previous models. There are several springs for the 996 models that will lower the car 1.25 inches or 35-40mm.

Personally, I would rather leave it stock than put a set of springs on a $150K Turbo. It's just not the right way to do it and I'm surprised they are even offered for that car. It's less than 5% of the purchase price to do it the proper way. Take a trip over to Rennlist and post about a "just springs" upgrade to see what kind of reaction you get. This is by far my favorite Porsche forum, but this board is for sure more form over function at times

I learned the hard way about the springs. Just some friendly advice. Why take one of the most cutting edge cars on the planet and put lowering springs on it? At that rate, why not just take out the hacksaw and zip a couple coils off the stock springs till you get your desired ride height?

 

Well cutting the springs - now that would be silly I have a bad eye gauging things

The total cost for me for installation/align/corner balance and springs = $725.00 - and no I am not doing any of the work. Also that includes Nitrogen in the tires as a friendly gift.

The conversion is a consideration But at $750.00 its only .5% of the total cost to experiment If it sucks then I will be the first to admit to it and run over to get the conversion you spoke of or a set of REAL coilovers

 

i will have to totally agree with deputydog, and if you are making an accessment off pss9 then thats your problem. pss9 are horrible, its funny how people dont realize that that particular coilover also looses travel when lowered, so its like having lowering springs but just adding rebound and compression dials. coilovers are probably hands down the best mod for a 997tt, then some gt3 seats, power can come later then braking. i dont mean to bash but shortening your travel can be quite dangerous at high speeds. suspension is so important but relative to driving conditions.

 

I will have to disagree with you regarding the Bilstein's. It's a great street/DE event suspension kit. Sure there are many out there that are better for the racer wanna be's (Moton's, etc). However, they are much more money and have a lot less forgiving street ride. Most of us just need a good upgrade to the stock with the ability to lower it some. Properly.

Yes, an adjustable ride height suspension (they're all coilvers for our cars, even stock) does lose travel when lowered. However, that's why there is a maximum lowering height for each setup so that you don't exceep it's damping capability/spring rates and hit the bump stops. So as long you stay within the ride height restrictions, it's not like having lowering springs with adjustable settings. It's a matched spring rate/damper combination. Many people have problems when the start slamming the PSS9's. It is not a race suspension, and that is why Bilstein only recommends around 1.5" max lowering on the 996's, so that it stays well within it's limits. If you want to bury your tires into the fenders, buy something else. If you want to slam a set of PSS9's, then yes, it will be like having lowering springs with adjustable damping.

My previous assessment came from running stock, then stock with lowering springs, and now a complete PSS9 replacement. Been there done that

 

eclou,

Where did you get the plastic to wrap around the springs to avoid binding?

Thanks.

 

to each their own, if bilstens work for you than more power to you. having driven h&rs, pss9, jics and motons i can tell you they all have different issues. and different out comes.

 

The Techarts come that way stock.

I am a firm believer in coilovers, but they were largely unavailable when I bought the Techart springs. That being said I am extremely satisfied with the springs alone. I have found that from my past usage of coilovers, "X" amount of adjustability is useless unless you are setting up for races at different tracks, and perhaps for different drivers. 99/100 times the dampeners get set and then aren't touched again.

In regards to the cost argument, these cars are expensive but the parts should not be that much more than other applications. If you think that doing springs alone is a waste of money because of early dampener failure, I would counter by saying you can get the dampeners rebuilt by Bilstein in the US 2-3 times a year for >10 years and still spend less than buying one set of coilovers.