HRE Unveils New Carbon Fiber Wheels
#31
11-06-2008 | 07:38 AM
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I guess everyone is entitled to their own personal style and this wheel is not my personal style.. No right or wrong just indifferent.
GEE-BEE sucks to hear about your accident and your wheels. You are much cooler about it than some would be.
I think before CF for me I would go with higher lighter weight aluminum such at T7075 if I were to spend the kind of money CF demands.
Benjamin - exactly.
GEE-BEE sucks to hear about your accident and your wheels. You are much cooler about it than some would be.
I think before CF for me I would go with higher lighter weight aluminum such at T7075 if I were to spend the kind of money CF demands.
Benjamin - exactly.
#32
11-06-2008 | 06:22 PM
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The contrast between dark center and light spokes is jarring to the eyes. This and the different finishes of the 2 materials make the wheel look like it's just put together in someone's garage. IMO much better to make the center spokes dark grey or gun metal in color, the way Dymag does it.
In addition, the thicker rim now makes the spokes shorter, even clumsy. Just look how thick the total rim thickess is -- between the carbon fiber rim thickness and the aluminum rim thickess adding together. The spokes now end, in a very odd fashion, not at the edge of the rim. I like many of HRE wheels but this one needs a redesign, I think.
With recent reports of air leak with some wheels and the picture of the shattered wheel, I'll have to ask... Why bother?
In addition, the thicker rim now makes the spokes shorter, even clumsy. Just look how thick the total rim thickess is -- between the carbon fiber rim thickness and the aluminum rim thickess adding together. The spokes now end, in a very odd fashion, not at the edge of the rim. I like many of HRE wheels but this one needs a redesign, I think.
With recent reports of air leak with some wheels and the picture of the shattered wheel, I'll have to ask... Why bother?
Last edited by cannga; 11-06-2008 at 06:44 PM.
#37
11-07-2008 | 11:35 AM
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Does anyone know how Dymag compares to magnesium wheel with respect to weight and fragility/durability?
http://www.bbs.com/en/motorsports/mo...rt-wheels.html
http://www.bbs.com/en/motorsports/mo...rt-wheels.html
#38
11-07-2008 | 03:42 PM
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If its good for commericial aircraft its just dandy for 195mph blasts.
oh, wait a minute... http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-494768.html
oh, wait a minute... http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-494768.html
#39
11-07-2008 | 08:56 PM
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Saw the wheel in person today while meeting with HRE and it's a great looking wheel. HRE won't release these wheels until it's absolutely right and there are no warranty or issues. Their relationship with Dymag is a bilateral one, both companies are working together to fix the problems originally found with Dymags wheels (leaks where mounting points occur, etc). Price is still to be determined once testing has been completed (these haven't even been put on a car yet). They're not for everyone but it is nice to see HRE pushing the limits and going towards the lightweight race market in addition to their current offerings in these areas.
#40
11-08-2008 | 10:23 PM
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Surely many wheel experts here know the answer to my question??
Does Dymag hold any advantage over the BBS magnesium wheel with respect to weight or durability?
Dymag = carbon rim plus magnesium center, BBS = all magnesium? Does that carbon rim offers any weight advantage over magnesium? Or is it all about look and a catchy phrase?
Does Dymag hold any advantage over the BBS magnesium wheel with respect to weight or durability?
Dymag = carbon rim plus magnesium center, BBS = all magnesium? Does that carbon rim offers any weight advantage over magnesium? Or is it all about look and a catchy phrase?
Does anyone know how Dymag compares to BBS magnesium wheel with respect to weight and fragility/durability?
http://www.bbs.com/en/motorsports/mo...rt-wheels.html
http://www.bbs.com/en/motorsports/mo...rt-wheels.html
#43
11-10-2008 | 09:39 AM
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I liked the P47's that were there better in gloss black. Anyone wanna buy my P40's
#44
11-10-2008 | 10:43 AM
We have done some Volk Magnesium wheels and of course they are VERY light and very strong. Price is all relevant to material, brand, and performance. I think this HRE carbon wheel is not for everyone, neither is a Dymag, but that is why there are other racing wheels available at a lesser price.
#45
11-10-2008 | 02:23 PM
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Agreed!! (almost...)
Benjamin,
I agree with you wholeheartedly (except for your criticism of us of course!!)
It is unfortunate that in one breath HRE is criticized for making wheels that are "too heavy" while our "competition" is applauded for making wheels that are irresponsibly light weight. And now we introduce a material that can get us to a lower weight safely and we're being criticized.
If you notice, the weights of our 1pc forged aluminum wheels are in-line with our quality competitors, namely BBS and Champion. Why is this? It's because the same physics that apply to them apply to me. I can make a 17lb wheel any day of the week, but that doesn't mean it is safe to go on a 997TT. Oh... but they've tested it. Not enough. It turns out that it helps if you test to the correct load rating for the application and the use the right spec. We actually multiply the designated TUV load rating by a factor of safety before designing the wheel to that spec. Why? We've found that simply going off of max axle load isn't enough. Not even close. If it were that easy to make them lightweight, wouldn't Porsche do it themselves? Do any of us have more resources than Porsche? I don't think so.
This shows the difference between good marketing and good engineering. We'll stick to the good engineering. We want to be in business for the long haul. We're not going to sell a bunch of wheels and then going running off with all the money once the fatigure failures begin... and they will begin. It just takes time.
So on to carbon. It turns out that the stiffness of the carbon barrel is actually much higher than the stiffness of the aluminum barrel. In fact, in fatigue, the barrels are load rated MUCH higher than the aluminum center simply because you have to design the rim around impact. Okay... so is it brittle and is it going to shatter into a million pieces under impact. Nope. If you hit a curb or something you'll definitely damage it, but you'll have a localized failure which is what you want and should expect.
As for us not knowing and/or not caring, I want to extend an invitation to you to visit HRE anytime. I can give you a personal tour (above and beyond my normal tours) and show you how we do it and why we do it that way. I think you'll be impressed by our knowledge and expertise, our capabilities, our honesty and the most of all the integrity that is simply infused in all of us here.
If you want to criticize us after that, feel free. I welcome constructive criticism. It keeps us moving forward. I just prefer it is based on facts and reality.
My $.51.
Thanks,
Alan
I agree with you wholeheartedly (except for your criticism of us of course!!
)It is unfortunate that in one breath HRE is criticized for making wheels that are "too heavy" while our "competition" is applauded for making wheels that are irresponsibly light weight. And now we introduce a material that can get us to a lower weight safely and we're being criticized.
If you notice, the weights of our 1pc forged aluminum wheels are in-line with our quality competitors, namely BBS and Champion. Why is this? It's because the same physics that apply to them apply to me. I can make a 17lb wheel any day of the week, but that doesn't mean it is safe to go on a 997TT. Oh... but they've tested it. Not enough. It turns out that it helps if you test to the correct load rating for the application and the use the right spec. We actually multiply the designated TUV load rating by a factor of safety before designing the wheel to that spec. Why? We've found that simply going off of max axle load isn't enough. Not even close. If it were that easy to make them lightweight, wouldn't Porsche do it themselves? Do any of us have more resources than Porsche? I don't think so.
This shows the difference between good marketing and good engineering. We'll stick to the good engineering. We want to be in business for the long haul. We're not going to sell a bunch of wheels and then going running off with all the money once the fatigure failures begin... and they will begin. It just takes time.
So on to carbon. It turns out that the stiffness of the carbon barrel is actually much higher than the stiffness of the aluminum barrel. In fact, in fatigue, the barrels are load rated MUCH higher than the aluminum center simply because you have to design the rim around impact. Okay... so is it brittle and is it going to shatter into a million pieces under impact. Nope. If you hit a curb or something you'll definitely damage it, but you'll have a localized failure which is what you want and should expect.
As for us not knowing and/or not caring, I want to extend an invitation to you to visit HRE anytime. I can give you a personal tour (above and beyond my normal tours) and show you how we do it and why we do it that way. I think you'll be impressed by our knowledge and expertise, our capabilities, our honesty and the most of all the integrity that is simply infused in all of us here.
If you want to criticize us after that, feel free. I welcome constructive criticism. It keeps us moving forward. I just prefer it is based on facts and reality.
My $.51.
Thanks,
Alan
i ain't no professor myself but internet car forum folks think to think in just one dimension, just maybe one or two conditions...
there is no free lunch. what you give up in weight (lightness) you sacrifice rigidity of the wheel. a car moves. the wheels also aren't always in a perfect circle. if the wheels aren't rigid enough to support the vehicle, then it has trouble putting rubber down onto the pavement for traction.
weight v. rigidity. i have a hard time believing given HRE's absolute lack of motorsport experience, field R&D that they spent the dough to truly get this balance right.
there is a reason why big **** multinational companies like BBS and OZ do not offer 20" 20lbs wheels. cuz ya can't unless you make some major sacrifices in durability and performance.... HRE doesn't know or care. they make pretty wheels, i love them, but would never ever get these.
plus the whole point of the rim part is to make the wheels circular shape pop... having it in CF makes it blend in with the tire which makes it look absolutely whack esp in motion.
my $.50
there is no free lunch. what you give up in weight (lightness) you sacrifice rigidity of the wheel. a car moves. the wheels also aren't always in a perfect circle. if the wheels aren't rigid enough to support the vehicle, then it has trouble putting rubber down onto the pavement for traction.
weight v. rigidity. i have a hard time believing given HRE's absolute lack of motorsport experience, field R&D that they spent the dough to truly get this balance right.
there is a reason why big **** multinational companies like BBS and OZ do not offer 20" 20lbs wheels. cuz ya can't unless you make some major sacrifices in durability and performance.... HRE doesn't know or care. they make pretty wheels, i love them, but would never ever get these.
plus the whole point of the rim part is to make the wheels circular shape pop... having it in CF makes it blend in with the tire which makes it look absolutely whack esp in motion.
my $.50