I see the 5mm spacers are a dealer/factory option. I've often wondered about the use of spacers, specifically in the P-cars. Do they serve any practical purpose other than filling out the wheel well further for cosmetic appeal (for example, can you use a thicker tire, say 315 width with the spacers and avoid rubbing)?

On my E39 M5, I am using 3mm spacers up front and running the rear rims and tires upfront (275s all around). Many folks like me have done it and are happy with this 'mod'. In my application, this helps:
1. clock out understeer when pushed hard on turns
2. eliminates the drag racer boy look of the staggered fitment
3. fills out the front wheel well and no more a pigeon toe look
4. lets me rotate tires which are now all the same size as the rear ones life is half of the fronts'

I know the jury is out on the use of spacers, some people feel negatively due to a number of reasons, such as:
1. added unsprung weight at each corner (granted 1 lb or so),
2. rooster tail pattern of water spray to trailing traffic when wet,
3. lowered effective spring rate,
4. increased wear on wheel bearings,
5. reducing top speed acceleration due to drag (more exposed tire beyond wheel well),
6. added extra sheer surface on a longer wheel bolt,
7. changing the kingpin axis, which in turn reduces steering accuracy and may affect the ESP/yaw control computer's parameters

Not sure I agree with all, but some are plausible.

Thoughts?

 

First of all I would not buy the spacers from the dealer, they only offer 5mm and they are expensive. I am considering them, I spoke to my dealer and they told me that they have found a 7mm in the front and a 13mm in the rear makes the wheels mount flush with the outside edge of the fenders and does not rub, even when the car is lowered to ROW height. It will add some weight but I would not notice the difference (at my level).

I will likely make a descion on whether I am adding them or not in the next few weeks.

 

Yeah, spacers were way too expensive when I saw them listed in the dealer. Surely someone like H&R should make a cheaper solution.

13mm sounds pretty thick though, hope they have their facts straight.

I got mine (for the BMW) from Luke at Tirerack for about $35 each IIRC.

 

I have 15mm H&R on my Allroad, the quality of H&R is amazing. I would buy them again

 

H&R, FVD, and others. Don't forget you'll need longer lug bolts too.

 

We carry or can get H&R spacers and bolts, and our cost will be FAR cheaper than the dealers I can assure you.

Almost all of our listed fitments don't include them, but more and more fitments need a bump from them to fit anymore. Aftermarket wheels these days seem to have offsets a bit more aggresive than needed or the backs of the wheels won't clear the caliper edge. But again, that's for a select few of what we sell. If a fitment needs a spacer, unless we can provide a hub-centric fitment with proper hardware we won't list it.

Are spacers "bad".....not if done correctly. 3-5mm with longer bolts are usually all that's needed to provide brake clearance or to bump the wheel out enough to provide a more aggressive stance. Beyond 5mm you could get into changes in dynamics of the car and could change the weight distribution on ball joints, etc. You never know what you will get until you do it, and of course lowering the car could create clearance challenges too.

The Tire Rack as a general rule would rather sell good conservative fitments without them and only sell them if absolutely sure the fitment is good.

PM me or email me if i can help. You can find your fitment at:

http://www.hrsprings.com/products/trak/

 

PM Sent

 

i'm sure this will start a flame...but using a 3-5mm spacer does not necessarily "require" you to get longer bolts. but that does depend on what bolt lenght you start with.

from h&r's spacer kit for minimum amount of turns "for a 12 x 1.5, 6.5 turns = approximately 10mm of load bearing shaft length"

when i added my 5mm spacers, i was at 7-7.5 turns with the proper torque.

i'm not saying its not a good idea, i just couldn't justify spending another $40-$50 when these meet...and chances are that the "minimum" has a 2x factor of safety bult-in.

now, 7,8 or 10mm....absolutely....

 

I don't think I'd choose short wheel bolts to save $50.

 

well, you completely missed the point. where did i say my bolts were short and i skimped on buying longer bolts? its not about money...i mean, your spending a few thousand $$$ on rims/tires....what's $50 for lugs, right?

when i bought the rims (from a very reputable place i might add) i told them i was using 5mm spacers and they said the standard bolts they sell with their rims for my car would be adequate. they said they don't suggest a "special" length bolt for 3-5mm spacers as long as you meet the minimum 6.5 turns.

my point was that if you don't need them, why get them? how safe is safe? if you measured your oem lug turns now and they were adequate, would you opt for longer bolts just for the hell of it?

 

this is good info damon. i wish i would have contacted you when i was buying rims a few months ago. i talked to one of your peer's from another forum (who he is sponsor for) and he wanted no mention of the word "spacer". i tried to tell him that nearly all c-class sports/amg's run spacers in the front because the brakes are so large and even rims that do clear the calipers end up rubbing on the coilovers...so you need spacers to kick them out a bit. he wanted nothing to do with it, so i bought my tires from you (great prices and shipping btw) and got my rims elsewhere.

next time, i'll give ya a ring...

 

I don't think I missed your point. There must be a reason that Porsche and FVD and others include longer bolts with their 5mm spacers - maybe the reason is $ but as I said I'd rather save $50 somewhere else.

 

Some manufacturers do include longer hardware than needed, so it MAY be possible to add a 3-5mm without adding new hardware. Obviously getting proper thread engaement is the critical factor. But you HAVE to take the time to find out. Being passed on the highway by one of your own wheels because you got lazy is certainly not a good day.

From our website: Bolt/nut size, recommended torque range, minimum number of turns needed.

12 x 1.5 mm: 70 - 80 ft. lbs, 6.5 turns
12 x 1.25 mm 70 - 80 ft. lbs, 8 turns
14 x 1.5 mm 85 - 90 ft. lbs, 7.5 turns
14 x 1.25 mm 85 - 90 ft. lbs, 9 turns
7/16 in. 70 - 80 ft. lbs, 9 turns
1/2 in. 75 - 85 ft. lbs, 8 turns
9/16 in. 135 - 145 ft. lbs, 8 turns

 

lol...its not about money dude, let it go...

H&R and Eibach's DO NOT come with longer bolts...you have to buy them seperately. They tell you there reccomendations on length, the rest is up to you. why buy what you don't need???

And for what its worth, FVD 3mm and 5mm spacers DO NOT include longer bolts either...only 7mm and up include them. Have a look if you don't believe me:

http://www.fvd.us/us/en/Porsche-0/-/...he_Tuning.html

 

I installed H&R 7mm up front and 15mm in the rear. the look great and i can even feel the difference in handling. something that i didn't like was that the front spacers spin freely when the wheels are off. the rear spacers have a hole that aligns with a screw hole in the rotor so that i could lock the spacer in place. the front rotors didn't seem to have any such screw holes. any suggestions on how to lock the front spacers so that they don't spin?