After a lot of thinking, I've decided to try a more aggressive sounding muffler. I'd like the sound to be relatively calm at idle but aggressive when opened up. I've read many posts and heard clips on the Tubi and AWE (I like Tubi between these two) but have not seen/heard much on Borla and TechArt. I know the Borla is not available for the C2S (and no one seems to know exactly when it will be?) but I guess I'm assuming it will sound similar to the C2 (which is very nice).

My question is, can you please rank these four options in terms meeting my requirements (calm at idle & aggressive when opened)? What about on overall sound?

Thank you.

 

You are going to get a lot of different opinions . LOL .

OK --I'll bite .

I found the Techart on the quiet side .

It came down betwen two exausts . Tubi Vs AWE .
and it was tough .

The cost and quality of the AWE made it a top notch value.

The Tubi won my heart though and in my case I went with the full kit (F77, Tubi exahust, Evo headers. ECU ) .
I felt that the combined package with the carbon fiber airbox not only produced an intoxicating sound but also looked like a work of art .

To answer your questions - The Tubi had a beautiful idle and fantastic high throttle . It was not boomy at all but very crisp , The ECU added the extra midrange punch which added to the fun of driving.

 

BTW 911fun, check your email already and confirm! If you haven't yet, click on this link and have it re-sent:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...o=requestemail

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/register.php?a=ver

 

Spyder --I think he needs 10 or 15 posts to PM .

 

I think you're right, but he still has "awaiting email confirmation" under his name. I don't think he can even reply to his own threads.

 

spyder997s, thx for the heads up. It's weird b/c I have been waiting for that email confirmation but just never got it - thought this was a normal 'waiting' period. I registered using my yahoo email address but after your post, I changed it to my gmail and got the confirmation right away - go figure... Anyways, thx again.

yrralis1, thx for your thoughts. I really like the Tubi as well. I guess I'm most curious about the Borla...

By the way, I'm a big fan of both of your cars - very, very nice!

 

I think the answer to this depends largely on personal preference. One man's music is another's unpleasant noise! However it is also very much influenced by whether you're just going to change the mufflers or the complete exhaust system.

On the 997S, like with many current cars, the standard catalysts do quite a lot of the silencing of the car's exhaust. For example, you will see roughly the same increase in sound volume by just swapping your cats for free-flow items (and leaving everything else stock) as you will by swapping just the mufflers for a sport design such as the Porsche Sports Exhaust. With this in mind, it follows that certain sports mufflers are designed to work with the standard cats and others to work without the extra silencing the standard cats offer.

Of the mufflers you refer to, the Tubis are designed to work with the standard cats and sound simply superb in this configuration. I had Tubis on my car for all of last year so I can confirm this first hand. (They're also up for sale right now but I'm in the UK unfortunately). I believe the Borla is also designed with the standard cats in mind. If you use these mufflers with free-flow cats, they just become ridiculously, intolerably loud.

The AWE and Techart mufflers in contrast, are designed to work with each manufacturer's free-flow cats. Use them with the standard cats and they will sound quite tame. In conjunction with free-flow cats, they come into their own.

Now factor-in the fact that the standard cats on the 997S are quite restrictive to the flow of exhaust gases whilst the standard mufflers appear to be quite free-flowing. This means in practice that swapping mufflers alone gives almost no extra BHP, whilst swapping the cats for free-flow items can give 16-18 BHP (wheels) increase together with a noticeable increase in torque right across the rpm band. So if you want power, you need matching mufflers and cats. This is what I've now done with my car (AWE cats and mufflers) and why my Tubis are for sale. I simply wanted the extra power too.

There is also another 6-7 BHP (wheels) on the table by changing your headers to an equal length design. These items tend to give you more power over 5000rpm with a slight decrease in the midband. This is either good or bad depending on how you drive the car.

Lastly, the European designs (TechArt, Cargraphic etc) usually have a matching re-map available for your engine electronics. The remap adjusts certain settings (mostly ignition timing) to work optimally with your free-flowing exhaust. The maps can give anything from 0-20 extra BHP depending on whose claims you believe but I've no personal experience of these products.

In essence then, your choice is narrowed by what you're looking for from the changes. Just a better sound or sound+power for your $$$s.

Hope this helps

Ian

 

Here's a system that costs ~$150.00 and two hours of your time. It's mild at idle and awesome at WOT...

If I can do this so can anyone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf0NpWNAj78

Matt

 

Ian,

Thx for that great feedback - exactly why I find this site so useful. One follow up question though: Did I read your post correctly in that a Tubi muffler with stock cats (and assuming everything else also stock) won't give any additional performance and just a different/better sound? I'm a little confused b/c you mention Tubi was designed to work with stock cats but then later note that the stock cats are very restrictive and just a new muffler will give almost no extra BHP (unclear if this applies to Tubi as well?).

You seem to be very knowledgeable and I appreciate you sharing your insight. I'm just curious b/c I think I've seen others have the Tubi muffler but stock cats but maybe they are doing it purely for the sound or maybe they don't know it doesn't help on the performance front?

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Thanks again.

 

Replacing just the mufflers gives little or no BHP increase on a 997s as the standard items are quite efficient - just a little too muted for a lot of people. So changing your mufflers to Tubi without any other modifications will give at best 2-3 BHP (wheels). You'd certainly never notice the difference in performance, but the whole character of the car is changed for the better (IMO) by the simply superb sound these mufflers produce.

Tubi also does some very nice (if expensive) headers. Headers are good for 5-6 BHP (wheels) so in conjunction with the Tubi mufflers you may get just a little boost in power (typically over 5000rpm) with no other mods. You do tend to lose a little power lower in the rev range by using equal-length headers on this engine though.

As for the Tubis being designed to work with the standard cats.... The factory cats do quite a lot of silencing of the exhaust, the mufflers the rest. Free-flow cats do almost no silencing at all so they make everything a lot louder. Used with the standard cats, the Tubis give the sound their designers intended. Take away the extra silencing of the factory cats and they no longer sound too good. Ear-splittingly loud, boomy, resonant - just offensive! (I know because I tried this combination)! But then they're being used in a way not intended by their designers.

Ian

 

Question, seeing that you have done quite extensive research on the subject.

1. In your opinion, combining Tubi mufflers with high flow cats, headers, and air box is not a good set up?

 

Just way too loud (and not particularly tuneful). At WOT the Tubis offer very little silencing of the exhaust. In conjunction with the standard cats that do a bit of silencing themselves, the sound is superb. Put in free-flow cats that do almost no silencing and the result is just too raucous for most situations.

Ian

 

I ask only because I got a great deal on the Tubi mufflers and I am not really interested in changing again. My concern was HP. If its just noise, then I'm not so worried...its a weekend driver and I don't mind it. BTW, sorry for the novice questions but what is WOT?

 

Hi Leon

WOT = Wide Open Throttle

This is of course just my opinion, but the problem with the combination of the Tubis and free-flow cats isn't just the loudness; it's also the quality of the sound, which to my ears is very unpleasant. Definitely a combination to be avoided. Conversely, the Tubis with the standard cats produce a superb, distinctive sound and can be improved upon even further with fitment of their headers.

So if you already have the Tubis, then I'd go with their headers too if you want a little more from the car and leave the cats alone. The airbox I have no experience with.

Ian

 

Hi Ian:

Your post was very informative. If I understand you correctly, installing sport cats but keeping the mufflers and headers stock would appear to be very effective for power? I have long theorized that Porsche Stock Exhaust is quite free flowing given that PSE doesn't have any power increase.

thanks for your insight,

Doc