Not to start another 10 page M3 thread, but having test drove the new M3 this weekend solely for the purpose of comparing to a C2S I will post my experience - and what are forums for anyway, but to help us navigate the wonderful automotive landscape available to us here in 2008?

The car I was generously allowed to drive had the steel roof with moonroof, 6 speed manual trans, and was pretty HEAVilY optioned with just about everything. I joke because I think 3700 lbs is unfortunately the thing that will sum the car up the most.

My very first reaction was that I expected 414 hp (or 420 depending on where you read) to feel a good bit quicker; I've recently been trying to find the realistic trap speed for these cars (not a "best ever" by a guy who doesn't care if the trans makes it past his single, glorious pass, but a common and repeatable speed). Coming from my E46 M3 which it seems is generally accepted in the 103-105 mph range, I'm surprised if/that the new one traps 112. That could be because the new car just doesn't have much difference in out of the hole grunt compared to the old car (0-60 times are specified very close, around 4.8s for both by BMW I believe). It seems the lack in torque increase (only about 10% more for the V8 than the outgoing S54 6 cylinder) combined with the increase in weight accounts for this. On the top end the car does feel better, especially at 100+ mph (I'm just surmising of course, I would NEVER actually drive a test car like that ).

The new car seems to have progressed slightly in the direction of more luxurious and sadly therefore "fatter" - being that the old car was already much more practicality that I needed, I was hoping for the opposite. To summarize this I note one feature; when you open the door and sit in the car, a little electric motor pushes the seatbelt forward so you can more easily reach it. Cool.... but 3700 lbs cool? Maybe if it had 550 HP...

I can say the new V8 sounded great when revved in the dealer garage (not quite as much so while driving around), perhaps this is a car I'd actually put exhaust on. It handled extremely predictably in the typical M fashion. I could add as much or as little slide as I desired and the chassis always felt calm and in control, and as in the last car I could do things mid-corner my buddy in his 993 would never dream of (or screams at me for more realistically). It looked good in white and black (the two cars that were there), interior seemed of nice quality, and I was very "at home" coming from my previous car. That combined with 4 years of service makes a new M3 a pretty safe bet, but as the luxury and weight have gone up so has the price. Remember that the 1995 car was released at $36,000? $70,000 is a lot more, inflation be damned.

So in summary the new car seems very luxurious, sounds like it has a V8, looks good, handles like an M car should, is not as high strung suspension wise or in terms of motor feel as the old car, has more gadgets, and is generally a pretty impressive car - but not as fast as I'd hoped, even though I keep buying them

All right, enough about BMW in the Porsche forum and to the point... I got done with the car and said to myself overwhelmingly - I want the 996TT I've always wanted. Surely THAT is what 420 bone stock HP is supposed to feel like...

Yet I'm a sucker for a warranty and the nicest interiors and the latest techology, so the 997S creapt up into my mind of late. So, with my 993 car buddy and general Porsche guru along with me, we headed out to the Porsche dealer to find a C2 (dare we hope, S model?) to compare back to back.... and while Porsche would sort of give us the time of day, they sure wouldn't give us a car to drive. So much for the test drive answering the question.

So as the automotive wheel of fortune circles with three cars left on the dial, I see the 996TT as the vehicle capable of running like a raped ape while still maintaining a decent level of modern construction and features, but probably out of warranty at my price range unless I'm lucky enough to find a nice CPO car that fits my criteria. It's gauranteed to have some maintenance costs, has the highest risk of a serious failure on something stupid, but is the most moddable and far and way the quickest without much effort. It's only a weekend play thing so it's not like it always has to run, but it should most of the time

The M3 is brand new and therefore would be flawless in terms of wear and tear, the dollars involved are ridiculously predictable, it's the newest chassis, the best construction and refinement available, and yet lacks some jaw drop factor performance wise and someday will be just another 3 series on the road. I feel the 997S fills the middle. That car in Gaurds with the Aero kit is fantastic, but if the M3's acceleration didn't wow me... ?

Thoughts / advice until I can find some P Cars to test?

My only criteria for comparison is that I don't really care that one car says "Porsche" and one says "BMW" and the related social implications- while I can't say I'm immune to image, driving pleasure and quality styling for my personal enjoyment are about tied with "parking lot effect" a distant 3rd. I'm a car guy, not a poseur... thanks for any thoughts!

 

cant explain it other than, a c2s is awesome, it has great take off speed, great pick up at 80, 100. Amazing breaking (even without pccb), i love the suspension and handling. I really cant see y anyone would get an M3 in comparison. I think the only way u will see for yourself is if u do end up test driving one. Good luck with your decision

 

M3 is a cool car but it will never be a 911.

 

I had an E46 M-3 and test drove the E92. Nice car, great engine. IMHO a bit more refined than the E46. Can't say the styling in or out floats my boat but it is a fine automobile.

I am now driving a C2s which is much lighter in feel, brakes better, steers much better
and is better looking and more comfortable. The M-3 may ride a bit better. The Porsche is a superior sports car not a superior sports sedan with sport car expectations.
The new M-3 may be able to pull away form a C2S at very high speeds due to the V-8, but, anywhere else the Porsche kills.To the BMWs credit--it has 2 extra seats, a semi usable trunk and is not as costly.

You can not go wrong with a new E92 M-3 if the car appeals to you but its NO 911 PORSCHE..

 

The M3 will feel slower than the C2S because of the type of car it is and I'd also imagine it still had quite a ways to go before being fully broken-in. For the money its a great car and BMW will sell alot I'm sure...but as others have said it no 997S but it's also not priced like a 997S price either.

 

If you are comparing prices, do an apple to apple comparison.

Base price for a 1995 M3 = $36,000
Base price for 2008 M3 = $56,000

Still not cheap, but have you seen the prices of P cars lately?

Also, why people keep saying this:

"M3 is a cool car but it will never be a 911"

Does the M3 or any other cars for that matter, try to pass itself as a 911?? Maybe when no one is looking too closely?? It's just sound funny and meaningless to me... And no, I am not a M3 fan, I'd take any 977 over an M3 any day of the week. But for the price, the M3 is hard to beat.

 

Maybe you do get it. Nobody is saying any other car will be and that is the point, the 911 is perfect for me...it fits all my needs in sheer perfection. No other car can do that, that is worth more to me. If not, I would have gotten a Z06 which is a more capable car in every way..on paper.

 

Go test drive a C2S.

 

couldn't be said any better. i have a 507 hp mb E63 AMG and also an 08 997s-as great a car as that AMG is, it will never be a 997s-enough said.

 

Nice write up and post. I considered the old M3 before I bought my 996 in 2004. I am glad I went with the porsche. Are you saying the dealer wouldn't let you test drive a 997. I live in NJ, but aren't there a lot of dealers near you? Maybe if not a new one how about preowned? Check autotrader and cars.com. I am sure you will be able to find one to drive. Then you decide.

 

I love Porsche and 911 (997) has a special quality in all its features, ie. motor, tranny, brakes etc...

It was disappointing to see the video of the 997 C2 and the new M3 doing a rolling start run, 30 to 150 mph. They ran twice and the M3 just walked away each time. Leads of > 6 car lengths. I did not expect that kind of result.

I have heard that the M3 brakes suck. They fade fast, again I've been told.

It is a nice car but I'd rather have a Porsche.
Cheers
GT3Ranger

 

+1, all cars compare themselves to the Porsche, it is the bench mark!

 

If you want the ability to walk a C2S from a rolling start, there are lots of cars for that.
I am not knocking the M-3 at all. If I had not decided to streamline my life (sell 2 cars I did not have time for --M-3 and 308) and buy the C2S, I might have been all over the new M-3.

However, the C2s gives me every driving dynamic I could ask for, looks beutiful to me, and fits like a glove. I am never going to challenge an M-3 from a rolling start (or a Z06 for that matter). If you own a 997 Turbo, an F430 etc., someday you will find someone faster. Not really that important in my driving world. I love blasting around in my MCS. Its a quick little car but there are plenty of faster cars in a straight line.

The inevitable comparos of M-3s and 997s will never end. Personally I think they are stupid too as one is a purpose built sports car and one is a highly evolved sedan.
BUT, its also obvious that every M-3 design paramters aims at the Carrera. There will always be M-3 vs Carrera rhetoric.

 

I have a 997S (6 speed) and I'm picking up a new M3 on Saturday with the M-DCT dual clutch manual gearbox (one of the first in the US). I'll post some comparisons next week, but it will be a few weeks before I hit 1,200 miles and can push it past 5,500 rpm (5,500-8,300 is where the real power is ). Also, the original poster's weight figure is slightly off - the car weights about 3,560, not 3,700. Sure, it is slightly heavier than the E46, but most people who have made the switch think it is a significant improvement in almost every area.

I'll continue to enjoy the 997, but I can't fit my road bike in it, hence the need for a daily driver. Plus it is cobalt blue with the factory aerokit, so it is low and draws too much attention for daily use.

 

[quote=Bahnstoermer;1795992]
Yet I'm a sucker for a warranty and the nicest interiors and the latest techology, so the 997S creapt up into my mind of late. So, with my 993 car buddy and general Porsche guru along with me, we headed out to the Porsche dealer to find a C2 (dare we hope, S model?) to compare back to back.... and while Porsche would sort of give us the time of day, they sure wouldn't give us a car to drive. So much for the test drive answering the question.

Thoughts / advice until I can find some P Cars to test?

quote]

They did not let you test drive a P car? Hell I drove 3 at the same dealership before my 20th birthday. I drove a 2001 C4 Turbo, it was used and being driven by the owner. The car had 56,000 miles on it and they wanted $59,000 I believe. I also drove a 1999 C2 with similar mileage that they wanted $33,000 for. And finally they let me drive a 2007 C4 stickered at $88,000!

I was driving a 1999 Ford Explorer XLT at the time, and I showed up in jeans and a T-shirt