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#46
You're both part right and part wrong. It's not the gas that physically moves from one side to the other, it is compression waves moving at the speed of sound along the volume of gas in the intake that give the ram effect. Go study how compression waves propagate along a medium and you'll be most of the way there.
This is a basic but understandable explanation: http://v8soarer.com/intakerunners/index.shtml
This is a basic but understandable explanation: http://v8soarer.com/intakerunners/index.shtml
Last edited by Ian_UK1; 04-23-2008 at 08:43 AM.
#47
I cannot be any clearer than stating that once the air is in one intake, it WILL NOT, CAN NOT ever reach the other intake. You really should study fluid dynamics. The laws are quite a bit different than they are in a closed environment. An NA engine DRAWS air. The air is not being puhed into it.
Pressure does not mean compression of a liquid or a gas. Gas and liquid will always follow the path of least resistance. You are trying to tell us that, somehow, a cylinder on one bank that is trying to suck air in is ignored and a cylinder trying to suck air that is located on the opposite side of the engine will take it instead.
So, how about specifically answering my question? Does the air inside the intake become compressed because of resonance or any other factor? This will at least give me an idea of whether to continue with the discussion.
To give you the simplest example, if you and another person are standing across from each other in a wind, the person upstream can still hear you talking despite the wind blowing against the sound waves coming from your mouth. The wind will not cancel out all the sound - the sound waves still pass thru the wind to the opposite side.
#48
You're both part right and part wrong. It's not the gas that physically moves from one side to the other, it is compression waves moving at the speed of sound along the volume of gas in the intake that give the ram effect. Go study how compression waves propagate along a medium and you'll be most of the way there.
This is a basic but understandable explanation: http://v8soarer.com/intakerunners/index.shtml
This is a basic but understandable explanation: http://v8soarer.com/intakerunners/index.shtml
Sound is not cause an equal change in the speed of the air. The speed of sound is independent to air speed and is a result of many things, of which, the biggest variables are air temperature and molecular weight. (dry/moist)
I'm curious how many people got their PHD is physics over the internet?
#49
YES. Pressure waves form and reflect which is how the resonance effect occurs
You are absolutely wrong, as I have explained over and over again. The reflected (rarefaction) pulse (air) will travel until it reflects off the next surface. It will reach the other intake as there is nothing to stop it since there is an open T-shaped path across the tract.
Once again liquid is effectively non-compressible. The cylinder on one bank will not suck all the reflected waves out that bank like some kind of black hole. Some waves still travel against the flow of the intake tract and induce the resonance effect.
Yes, the air is compressed to form pressure waves. This is the same way sound is carried in air. Those pressure/sound waves can travel against the overall flow of air.
To give you the simplest example, if you and another person are standing across from each other in a wind, the person upstream can still hear you talking despite the wind blowing against the sound waves coming from your mouth. The wind will not cancel out all the sound - the sound waves still pass thru the wind to the opposite side.
You are absolutely wrong, as I have explained over and over again. The reflected (rarefaction) pulse (air) will travel until it reflects off the next surface. It will reach the other intake as there is nothing to stop it since there is an open T-shaped path across the tract.
Once again liquid is effectively non-compressible. The cylinder on one bank will not suck all the reflected waves out that bank like some kind of black hole. Some waves still travel against the flow of the intake tract and induce the resonance effect.
Yes, the air is compressed to form pressure waves. This is the same way sound is carried in air. Those pressure/sound waves can travel against the overall flow of air.
To give you the simplest example, if you and another person are standing across from each other in a wind, the person upstream can still hear you talking despite the wind blowing against the sound waves coming from your mouth. The wind will not cancel out all the sound - the sound waves still pass thru the wind to the opposite side.
Ok, I see you main false starting point. The fact is, the air in the intake system IS NOT compressed. Until you can come to the conclusion that is a fact, there is no need to further try to explain things to you.
#50
For example, the Schrick manifold for the Volkswagen VR6 engine will produce positive pressure over 1k rpms in the midrange, peaking at ~1 psi.
Just another actual data point to consider.
#51
I agree completely that there is no more need for your "explanations"
#52
996TT vs. 996GT3 for a visual...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H96FgEuVaLU
#55
Wow that was some posting by the professors of air pressure.
I called my buddy a retired physicist specializing in high pressure dynamics from Canada's National Research Council. He told me to beat it when I asked him to weigh in on this.... hahaha
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