Digital Motor Electronics - the engine control system. I knew what it was but didn't know the exact name. Had to google it.

 

Ok - So you do all the tests
1) check for engine over revs
2) look at bodywork and paint
3) Check for water damage
4) Run carfax and be skeptical
5) look at service records
6) try and talk to previous owner(s)
7) check brakes, rear tires , service
8) even check why after 50K miles this car still has those amber side markers .

Is it really worth nearly 50K for this car ? Don't get me wrong I have loved every one of my Porsches UNTIL I start facing reliability and maintenance . I don't like any car which I have to spend time and money fixing .

50K miles without a warranty from a used car lot ? That's automotive gambling and the odds are not in the favor of the buyer . After all someone else (perhaps even more than one person) got tired of THAT car leaving it sitting on that lot . If you get tired of it ... with those miles ... in this economy ... yikes ...

If you are looking for a reason to buy that car then you have plenty of agreement with that idea on this thread . You knew that there would be some who would say "walk" .
I don't say walk ... I say place the money that you could spend in repairs into the car purchase right from the start . What is ten more grand for so much peave of mind ? In fact if you just wait until after the facelift and the economy continues to struggle it may only be 5K extra to have that dream car.

Good luck .

 

Thanks for the advice.

My main reason for this thread was to try and understand whether certain "rules of thumb" are true at any price. That is, a lot of people here are religious about only buying cars under warranty, w/ low miles, etc. and shun anything otherwise. But in a similar vein, unsophisticated investors tend to overvalue large, blue chip stocks and hedge fund guys like me revel in the undervalued "risky" stocks that such herd mentalities create.

So the question in my head was, does the rule of thumb to avoid high mileage cars cause people to disproportionately undervalue them? That is, if you do a PPI, etc. and everything checks out, what is the incremental expected cost of owning a high mileage car vs. a low mileage one (repairs, depreciation, etc.)?

Anytime you buy a car it's an "automotive gamble." But just like in poker, what's the expected value and what's the volatility? If the expected cost of repairs/depreciation is $6k (and 95% of the time falls w/in $4-8k) and I save $10k up front, then that seems like a pretty good bet. On the other hand, if the expected cost is $8k and 95% of the time it's b/w $6k and $25k, then saving $10k to stomach that kind of risk may not be worth it.

You ask "is peace of mind worth $10k?" as if it's rhetorical when it's not. When you buy a $50 toaster at Best Buy and they ask you whether you'd like a $10 warranty for "peace of mind" you probably say no. In the same regard, paying $10k for peace of mind on a $50k car is dependent upon your wealth/risk tolerance and how you view the car. First of all, it's not like my $50k car budget is a reach for my income. If the thing ends up bursting into flames the next day due to an act of God, I'd be pissed but not insolvent. Also, this really isn't a "dream car" decision. Don't get me wrong, I really want a 997, but it's not some huge luxury purchase wherein the psychological/emotional utility of ownership just vastly outweighs any tangible economic cost. I'm more trying to make a shrewd investment decision.

 

i agree with you... but many ppl will not... so ull get a wide array of answers... in general, for many pcar owners, they have the resources to pay a bit more and not deal with the hassle... my ceo pays top dollar because he does not have time to negotiate. plus he likes being on a first name basis with the ppl @ the stealership.

my opinion, is that there is a middle ground somewhere. i think 50K is high mileage. the optimal point imo on the depreciation curve is about 2-3 years out with 15-30K on the car... the biggest depreciation hit has already been taken. here in socal, there are several 2005 997S w < 20K miles cars for sale ~$58ish. I'm guessing the car can be had for about $55-56. Personally, I think spending an additional $5K would be worth the newer car. I'd drive about 15K miles per year, so that's 2 years of add'l mileage to me (50K miles vs 20K miles)...

 

QUOTE]So the question in my head was, does the rule of thumb to avoid high mileage cars cause people to disproportionately undervalue them?[quote]

No -Priced into the higher miles is the cost of replacing the parts . For a example , a new clutch may entail engine removal and 9 hrs of labor . Another example (common with 996 but not unheard of with 997) is RMS which can be repaired but if not caught and out of warranty could lead to a blown engine . New ceramic brakes are a major expense . I can go on ....

In fact with Porsches --forget 50K miles . Once it crosses 10K it takes a hit and there's still plenty of warranty left . And BTW with exotic cars like Ferrari the mileage drop is even higher .

It's not simply an emotional pricing point . It's a cost effective manner of selling the car . What used car buyer would want to pay more than a new car if replacing wear and tear items out of warranty leads him to high costs and then a major item goes? None . IMO.

The difference between the toaster and the Porsche comes down to resale . Eventually one sells his car but usually not his toaster. Plus the Porsche comes with a warranty and so does the toaster ... adding more warranty is a constant for BOTH EXCEPT with a 50+K Porsche you have passed the deadline to add it . With high miles on that Porsche and major repairs you are stuck . In short you can pay the 10K now going in or pay it later to get out on acar which will be worth a lot less .

And supposing you beat the odds . You still have rotine wear , labor costs, parts -- and there are some folks who are skilled mechanics who work on their own Porsches but if you are not that person ... it will add up.

 

What you're listing are potential repairs. What I'm asking for is w/ how much precision and accuracy can a PPI assess the risk of these repairs? Getting struck by lightning is a pretty bad event, but I can tell you the odds are low if you don't go out in a storm. Similarly, replacing a clutch or a brakes would be very expensive, but I'm wondering if a PPI can actually ascertain the probability of that.

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Obviously a used car buyer wouldn't pay more than a new car. What you're stating (that a used car out of warranty will cost more than a new car after taking into account major repairs) would imply the used car market shouldn't exist.

Quote:

The difference between the toaster and the Porsche comes down to resale . Eventually one sells his car but usually not his toaster.

But whether I buy a car w/ 25k miles or a car w/ 50k miles, in both scenarios I will have to sell this car out of warranty, since it will be > 50k miles at that point.

Quote:

Plus the Porsche comes with a warranty and so does the toaster ... adding more warranty is a constant for BOTH EXCEPT with a 50+K Porsche you have passed the deadline to add it .

The point was that I could effectively add a warranty to the car by spending another $10k and buying one w/o 50k miles.

Quote:

With high miles on that Porsche and major repairs you are stuck . In short you can pay the 10K now going in or pay it later to get out on acar which will be worth a lot less .

Again, I'm looking for something more specific than "no of course you're going to end up paying it in major repairs." As in, what are the major repairs I won't be able to forsee w/ a PPI? The depreciation is a real issue, but given that it'll be out of warranty in both scenarios, I'd imagine it won't be the major factor in comparison to potential repairs.

Quote:

And supposing you beat the odds . You still have rotine wear , labor costs, parts

This is true of whether I buy a new one, a used one under warranty, or a used one out of warranty.

 

I'd imagine that this car can be had for less than the listed price as well, which means it's probably more like a $7-8k differential.

When you say it's worth it to you because it's 2 extra years of mileage, is that based on when you resale? i.e. if you held for 3 years, you'd be selling w/ 65k miles vs. 95k miles? Because I'd imagine once the car hits 50k+ miles, the depreciation from each marginal mile diminishes pretty quickly (e.g. the fall-off in value from 30k to 50k is a lot greater than 50k to 70k).

 

[/QUOTE]What you're listing are potential repairs. What I'm asking for is w/ how much precision and accuracy can a PPI assess the risk of these repairs?[QUOTE]

Routine wear is not "potential" . It's inevitable . Just like shoes wear so do cars . PPI reduces risk but even a new or certified car with inspections pose a repair nightmare .
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117568&highlight=oil+leak

and
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125918


Do you think the owner(s) of a 50K mile car replaced everything to make the next guy's cost cheaper ? If so --I'd say he's very generous and that's why my very FIRST sentence of my first post on this thread said "Over 50K miles --I would say that one has to know the previous owner ." So I did not rule it out completely. My second sentence said "From a used car lot --very risky. No warranty plus high miles could make the car a potential money pit " which simply means that the doubts exist .

You want the risk ? No warranty . Taken on faith that the inspection was so good that you face no issues on a car which regardless of buy or sell would cost less ? Then buy it .

We are not talking about a Honda where repairs are cheap . Of course a used Porsche market will exist but at the high end it's usually the guy who has dreamt of the car most who faces the biggest loss as his used car with high miles is bought on those dreams . I have owned 8 Porsches and have met many who bought their dream car only to face the reality of the expenses . The ones (I observed) who succeed are usually very good at working on their own cars .