to supercharge a 997?
#61
12-12-2008, 09:04 PM
You are so correct, Cattman !
Very easy to spend $10k on Porsche and didn't 'feel' as much improvement as going for SC right the way ! We all learn and pay our tuition fee. I should have gone on this Forum earlier and be wiser.
Very easy to spend $10k on Porsche and didn't 'feel' as much improvement as going for SC right the way ! We all learn and pay our tuition fee. I should have gone on this Forum earlier and be wiser.
#62
12-13-2008, 08:01 AM
Very helpful perspective, and it's the path I've been (albeit subconsciously) taking. I've done a few comfort/appearance mods while the car is on warranty (I bought it pre-owned, so over the last two years or so).
I'm now about to engage in some chassis work (Damptronics, sway bars and shock tower work). My personal preference is to focus on steering feel and handling over speed, but that's just me.
Then it will be the SC upgrade. Sounds like the singularly perfect way to gain relevant (rather than modest/incremental) power gains. I would also want to go with the Sachs Stage 2 and LSD at this point, but I hate replacing a nicely working clutch - and I don't tend to wear these out (must be a wimp) so this will be a tougher call when time comes.
I'm now about to engage in some chassis work (Damptronics, sway bars and shock tower work). My personal preference is to focus on steering feel and handling over speed, but that's just me.
Then it will be the SC upgrade. Sounds like the singularly perfect way to gain relevant (rather than modest/incremental) power gains. I would also want to go with the Sachs Stage 2 and LSD at this point, but I hate replacing a nicely working clutch - and I don't tend to wear these out (must be a wimp) so this will be a tougher call when time comes.
Last edited by Verde; 12-13-2008 at 08:04 AM.
#63
12-13-2008, 08:36 AM
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Verde,
When the time comes, I suggest we have a thread on what you reference as "shock tower work". These cars don't need strut braces, unless you're running slicks ALL the time HARD. We'll have to talk about what kind of alignment/setup/camber compromises you are willing to make and go from there too.
Jared
When the time comes, I suggest we have a thread on what you reference as "shock tower work". These cars don't need strut braces, unless you're running slicks ALL the time HARD. We'll have to talk about what kind of alignment/setup/camber compromises you are willing to make and go from there too.
Jared
#64
12-13-2008, 12:37 PM
If you are looking to supercharge a 997S, it makes much more sense to buy a turbo to begin with. Extensive modifications are expensive and garner little additional used car value. Supercharging makes a lot more sense when you already have a sunk cost in the car and wish to increase performance.
My initial plan was to run the car about 4 years & then upgrade to a heavily optioned turbo cabriolet. I had a full AWE exhaust system & Evo airbox installed for around $5K and intended to stop there. The car was fully paid off. Change of plan. I was promoted to be an officer in my engineering firm and had to buy into the company. My second car dropped dead and I bought an X3, with unwanted car payments. New car fund done for.
Since then, I put in a GIAC reflash, IPD plenum and a third radiator kit. Next up is aftermarket coilovers and swaybars. Probably will go to custom wheels ($4K to $6K for no performance increase) with the next tire change, due late summer.
Sometime after that, a VF supercharger installation, probably $15K. A custom 4th radiator will be needed, as the installed 3rd radiator will be switched over to the intercooler. A heavy duty clutch will run around $2K and I will consider a lightweight flywheel, about $1K.
These things do not always go as initially planned. Also, few aftermarket modifications make any financial sense. You have to assume that you are throwing your money away.
My initial plan was to run the car about 4 years & then upgrade to a heavily optioned turbo cabriolet. I had a full AWE exhaust system & Evo airbox installed for around $5K and intended to stop there. The car was fully paid off. Change of plan. I was promoted to be an officer in my engineering firm and had to buy into the company. My second car dropped dead and I bought an X3, with unwanted car payments. New car fund done for.
Since then, I put in a GIAC reflash, IPD plenum and a third radiator kit. Next up is aftermarket coilovers and swaybars. Probably will go to custom wheels ($4K to $6K for no performance increase) with the next tire change, due late summer.
Sometime after that, a VF supercharger installation, probably $15K. A custom 4th radiator will be needed, as the installed 3rd radiator will be switched over to the intercooler. A heavy duty clutch will run around $2K and I will consider a lightweight flywheel, about $1K.
These things do not always go as initially planned. Also, few aftermarket modifications make any financial sense. You have to assume that you are throwing your money away.
#65
12-13-2008, 03:00 PM
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A turbo does not feel at all like a supercharged S. It feels like a heavy pig with horrible steering feel. I'm sorry.
Just wait a few months. February issue of Excellence. My car is in a magazine test versus a heavily modded 997TT.
The turbo might go well in a straight line, but it is in no way a "driver's car".
I can't be blunt enough. Turbos kinda blow. Your point could be better made if you looked at the selling price of 996 GT2s. THAT'S better for your point.
Just wait a few months. February issue of Excellence. My car is in a magazine test versus a heavily modded 997TT.
The turbo might go well in a straight line, but it is in no way a "driver's car".
I can't be blunt enough. Turbos kinda blow. Your point could be better made if you looked at the selling price of 996 GT2s. THAT'S better for your point.
#66
12-13-2008, 03:36 PM
Sometime after that, a VF supercharger installation, probably $15K. A custom 4th radiator will be needed, as the installed 3rd radiator will be switched over to the intercooler. A heavy duty clutch will run around $2K and I will consider a lightweight flywheel, about $1K.
I live in Florida and have tracked my car. It never even comes to close to overheating.
#67
12-13-2008, 04:07 PM
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#68
12-13-2008, 05:46 PM
Well I am glad I did the supercharger in my 997S cab. I am probably older than many of you here and this car will be my last Porsche. I have been doing mods to cars for over 30 years, and have decided that I will keep my current cars until I'm to old to enjoy them any more. There is very little in my car that has not been changed, seats, steering wheel, suspension, body, etc, all have been changed. I spent as much money buying and moded this car as it cost for my 430, but I it the the best Porsche I have ever owned. I am now turning my attention on the Gallardo. I will offer one bit of advise, mod your car because you want it to be what you want.
#70
12-13-2008, 06:27 PM
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#71
12-13-2008, 06:50 PM
Blakt Out,
I can't wait to see the February issue of Excellence that you'll be in. I had assumed that a 997TT is more desirable than a SC'd 997S. Now, there are some standard niceties in the TT: full leather, turbo wide-body, warranty, etc. that I won't get when I SC my 997S.
Here's a bedtime story about a little boy named the "CATTMAN". He used to drive BMW's, and loved them. He spent a lot of time and money modifying them, until one day he bought a Porsche, and told himself, 'CATTMAN, now you're at the top, there's no need to spend all that money on mods anymore, it's good to go as is!'. CATTMAN was wrong. Very wrong."
Point is: no matter what I buy, I'd mod it. I can guarantee you that if I had the resources and inclination to buy a Bugati Veyron, I'd mod it. And right there, that says is it all. I'll never be satisified, and enough is never enough.
CATTMAN
I can't wait to see the February issue of Excellence that you'll be in. I had assumed that a 997TT is more desirable than a SC'd 997S. Now, there are some standard niceties in the TT: full leather, turbo wide-body, warranty, etc. that I won't get when I SC my 997S.
Here's a bedtime story about a little boy named the "CATTMAN". He used to drive BMW's, and loved them. He spent a lot of time and money modifying them, until one day he bought a Porsche, and told himself, 'CATTMAN, now you're at the top, there's no need to spend all that money on mods anymore, it's good to go as is!'. CATTMAN was wrong. Very wrong."
Point is: no matter what I buy, I'd mod it. I can guarantee you that if I had the resources and inclination to buy a Bugati Veyron, I'd mod it. And right there, that says is it all. I'll never be satisified, and enough is never enough.
CATTMAN
#72
12-13-2008, 06:53 PM
Thank you for the offer, and I'm very open to input on the stiffening techniques - or even if they're required. I 'assumed' that the shock tower stiffeners were a good idea, but had not gotten to the research phase yet. Owning that super-stiff-chassis car in my avatar, and being a handling fan more than a power fan, I just put it on my list of 'good things to do'. But if it's superfluous for a street-mostly car neither helping the handling nor the perceived feel of the car in that mode, then I'd be happy to pass.
The question is though, separately from the driveline upgrades of SC, Sachs II/LWFW and perhaps exhaust, what is best to do to the chassis. I'm pretty much sold on the Bilstein Damptronics and sway bars, but what other parts (wishbones et al) are prudent. Having raced karts as a kid and played with a few cars on tracks, I am appreciative of a great steering/handling car.
The question is though, separately from the driveline upgrades of SC, Sachs II/LWFW and perhaps exhaust, what is best to do to the chassis. I'm pretty much sold on the Bilstein Damptronics and sway bars, but what other parts (wishbones et al) are prudent. Having raced karts as a kid and played with a few cars on tracks, I am appreciative of a great steering/handling car.
Verde,
When the time comes, I suggest we have a thread on what you reference as "shock tower work". These cars don't need strut braces, unless you're running slicks ALL the time HARD. We'll have to talk about what kind of alignment/setup/camber compromises you are willing to make and go from there too.
Jared
When the time comes, I suggest we have a thread on what you reference as "shock tower work". These cars don't need strut braces, unless you're running slicks ALL the time HARD. We'll have to talk about what kind of alignment/setup/camber compromises you are willing to make and go from there too.
Jared
#74
12-13-2008, 07:46 PM
Thanks very much Cattman. Well the Ultima is on hold for a bit. I've got a very busy work life at the moment, have to do some preparatory work getting the garage ready to lift the FGT so I can work on the Ultima and it will have to wait a bit.
But it is a hoot. Infinitely more raw than anything else I've driven in the last 30 years and a car that I won't have to worry about as much as the Ford - which I've come to realize is more a collector piece than a driver car (at least to me).
So I'm likely to put some basic (or more) work in to the 997S and enjoy it for a while before embarking on the big project.
But I do want to try my hand at building one of those. I've got the LS7 mod'ed engine picked out and everything!
And thanks for looking over the blog. I'm remiss in updating it, but have a planeride tomorrow so I'll have writing time.
But it is a hoot. Infinitely more raw than anything else I've driven in the last 30 years and a car that I won't have to worry about as much as the Ford - which I've come to realize is more a collector piece than a driver car (at least to me).
So I'm likely to put some basic (or more) work in to the 997S and enjoy it for a while before embarking on the big project.
But I do want to try my hand at building one of those. I've got the LS7 mod'ed engine picked out and everything!
And thanks for looking over the blog. I'm remiss in updating it, but have a planeride tomorrow so I'll have writing time.
#75
12-15-2008, 10:14 PM
I just read your post! WOW!!!
I can't agree with you more..
I started like this...
1. cats
2. hre p40's <-- that was stupid / coulda nearly had an SC kit for that
3. bilstein pss9's
4. cargraphic exhaust
5. sway bars
I'm still itching to buy this SC kit. If only I hadn't bought the rims.
I can't agree with you more..
I started like this...
1. cats
2. hre p40's <-- that was stupid / coulda nearly had an SC kit for that
3. bilstein pss9's
4. cargraphic exhaust
5. sway bars
I'm still itching to buy this SC kit. If only I hadn't bought the rims.
We are in agreement. I am now into mods as follows:
-Mufflers $1,400
-ECU $1,000
-Plenum $1,000
-LWFW, clutch, pressure plate, install, $3,000
-EVOMS Intake $600
Next:
-Cats $1,600
-Headers $600
Total: $9,200
VS:
SC: $13,000
No brainer is to skip the $9k I spent and head straight to the SuperCharger aisle "without passing GO".
But now that I've done what I've done, to not SC is moronic. I'm so far down the road already with most of pre-req's/ optimizers.
Had I added it up this way at onset of the mod bug, I'd have SC'd first. But for me, and I suspect for many, the mod bug bites slowly then suddenly. And by the time you're manic, you're already, like me, $9k in. It starts so innocently, and before you know it, you're driving Darth Vader's Blakt Out Sled.
CATTMAN
-Mufflers $1,400
-ECU $1,000
-Plenum $1,000
-LWFW, clutch, pressure plate, install, $3,000
-EVOMS Intake $600
Next:
-Cats $1,600
-Headers $600
Total: $9,200
VS:
SC: $13,000
No brainer is to skip the $9k I spent and head straight to the SuperCharger aisle "without passing GO".
But now that I've done what I've done, to not SC is moronic. I'm so far down the road already with most of pre-req's/ optimizers.
Had I added it up this way at onset of the mod bug, I'd have SC'd first. But for me, and I suspect for many, the mod bug bites slowly then suddenly. And by the time you're manic, you're already, like me, $9k in. It starts so innocently, and before you know it, you're driving Darth Vader's Blakt Out Sled.
CATTMAN