The m3 handles just about the same, seriously needs better brakes, but is very well balanced. Any car can easily meet these requirements with proper suspension tuning, sways, and camber adjustment.

I'll call the m3 a better sports car once I see the new CSL come out (with lower weight than a 3 series!). It also wouldn't hurt if their racing program picked up. They've had numerous opportunities to take it from Porsche at 24 hours of Nurburgring, 24 hours of Lemans, and 24 hours of Sebring.

 

Uh, they were dominating Porsche with the M3 V8 until Porsche lobbied to have the rules changed: "Competing in the 2001 season with a 4.0-liter V8, the M3 GTR decimated the GT (now GT2) class. Porsche cried foul, citing a lack of an "authentic" V8-powered M3 production car. Despite a small run of V8 M3s to satisfy regulations, the ALMS changed the rules so that BMW had to either produce 1000 road cars or face weight and intake restrictions. BMW decided it wasn't worth it and didn't return for the 2002 season. But with introduction of the E92 M3, BMW is free to race with a V8 unrestricted"

Anyway, BMW is looking strong in GT2, just wait for Sebring, Porsche can't complain this time: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/27/a...ting-by-storm/

The new CSL is probably not coming but if you don't feel it is a sports car until a CSL comes out, fine.

 

The brakes in an M3 aren't superb - they're not really up to the job for heavy duty or track work. Not to say they aren't effective in a one-time stopping situation, they are, but you can't rely on them the way you can rely on Porsche brakes. The stock brakes in a 997 will take abuse at the track all day long, without fade. The stock M3 brakes quite simply can't do that. Stories of BMW brake fade are legion - and it's mentioned in many reviews and comparison tests.

That said, I have a lot of time and respect for both cars and I can understand why some prefer the M3. I just prefer the 997, and I didn't seriously consider the M3 when I was looking (although I did in fact cross-shop the E60 M5 before I got my latest 997). I could easily see myself in the M5, I just didn't see myself in the M3.

 

Not to make this into a another heated battle, but the 13.1 could be a partly due to reaction time, wheel slippage, lack of Launch control, missed shift, etc.

You ran a 12.2 (ok you say 12.1, but your sheet said 12.19 so I guess we are both right) and the .9 of a second can seem like a lot of distance at speed, but we have all seen some problems/mistakes in a race that will cost a second or more (most of us have watched an episode of Pinks).

The purpose of this thread was not to get into a debate as to why the Porsche 997 is better then the BMW M3 or vise versa, it was to ask how many people would trade there 997 for an M3. You have argued to many people the merits of the M3, and have asked the question have you ever driven an M3 to a few, I am wondering have you driven a 997, not to the corner store, but a good drive were it can be pushed and driven. I doubt that you have otherwise you would not be so negative towards the 997.

As for your comment about being afraid of the M3, I am afraid when I get in front of one, and the corner requires some heavy braking. Not sure if I will find an M3 hitting me from behind or not when the brakes fail. Please don't deny the that the brakes are weak, if you continue I will know for sure that you have not driven you car hard on a track for more then a few laps.

 

Your m3 sedan brakes better than a 911? Even if that were true, we all know that the honor would only last one lap.

 

The amusement factor of this thread is very high!

Going by some of the arguements posted here - all E92 M3 owners are morons.

Here's why:

Every time I go to the track I get point-bys from them in my (mostly stock) S2000 - come to think of it every time I autocross I beat them like red headed step children. ::

Not to mention that in the PacNW a ton of M3 owners seem to be kids who have daddy or mommy buying their cars for them.

To make matters worse the E92 M3 doesn't even look as clean as a 335i with that goofy hood bulge.

The only M3 I'd really like to have in an E30. Love that car. A 2002tii would be nice in my garage as well.

Finally - I would hope that none of my fellow 997 owners would be juvenile enough to go to the M3 boards and get into this "mine's better" kind of trolling. It's stupid.

Flame away, Bimmer fanbois! It's all in good fun.

 

Jeff, we have a large number of daddy bought M3's in Vancouver as well. However I wouldn't say that all of the owners are Morons. I know some really good guys that drive/track them and they are humble down to earth people. However, I do know what you mean, I have seen way too many act the as you have described them.

As for going and trolling on other forums, not a productive way of spending my time. It is bad enough that I spend this much time on the forums that mean something to me. I am all for hearing another point of view, but there are times when things become a joke and embarrassing for the troll.

For those that don't know what a troll is (CURIO you need to click this link) here is a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

 

Guys, I had a bad dream last night...

It actually started off pretty good. I was tracking at PIR with Ed, and I was so happy that I could finally keep up with him. All of a sudden, an M3 came out of nowhere and passed both of us. In fact the M3 passed us twice within that one lap. Now some of you guys probably will say what's the big deal, as we all know that the M3 is way faster than our 997s. Later on the M3 driver came over to us and said "I already told you that 997 owners are afraid of M3, Ha Ha Ha..."

I woke up at this point with my pants slightly wet, realizing that deep down inside my heart I'm really afraid of the M3. I immediately picked up my phone and called my buddy who worked at the local BMW dealer. I said I would like to trade in my club coupe for an M3 and asked for a good deal. He said due to the slow economy, everything is on sale, except the M3. I asked why. He said ever since his boss read the C & D magazine, he said no discount on any M3. In fact, he sent a copy of C & D to the BMW headquarter in Germany, and the big bosses decided that they will raise the M3 price by $20000 since it is such a better car than a 997.2.

Long story short, my buddy said if I can get at least five 997 owners to trade in for the M3, he can get us MSRP, and a free M3 logo keychain each.

I've called in sick today as I'm busy organizing an M3 group buy. Any 997 owner that is interested can send a message to my new email - M3rules@screwyou.com.

Thanks for listening.

 

Tim, I think that you were watching reruns of Top Gear. I watched the one were the guys are running in a 24hr race and the Stig was out passing everyone in the 330d. Perhaps he was driving the M3 on PRI and passed us twice

I tried to email you but it bounced back and said the mailbox was full, maybe you can get a fee car wash with all the extra buyers. Next week when the market is flooded with used 997's I can pick up #13 for a song.

 

Hey Ed,

I think you've solve the puzzle. Stig = Curio = the M3 driver. No wonder he claimed so highly of the M3, he can basically beat us in a Honda Civic.

I'm going to call Jeremy now and let him know who the Stig is. Later...

 

Tim, the Stig lives in England.

This could be the Stig's american cousin!

 

Hey Ed - I was just playing around. I actually like the M3. If I were limited to just one car - it would be on the short list.

I just felt like goofing. One of my pals went from an '06 C2S to a nice white E92 M3 and I think it fits his needs better than the Porsche.

 

I know that you were kidding around, I don't think that anyone one this thread has been serious, how could it be with the nature of the topic and the ongoing discussion.

If I could only have one car, I think that a RS4 or an S6 would be higher on my list, as I live higher up in the mountains and get snow through the winter. The AWD is very important to me. However I think a 4 door M3 would be on the list, but with two small kids the back seat space for the M3 and RS4 would be big negatives. I went from an 05 S4 to the 997 as the back seats were pretty much useless for baby seats. The Touareg is good utility hauler, kid hauler, hockey gear hauler, and tow vehicle for the Porsche. I call my Porsche the Hooker, it is only really good for pure pleasure, and can't haul too much stuff with it (roll bar didn't help much either).

Enjoy.

Ed

 

If I'm going to have one car, it will be Panamera Turbo with AWD. Now start flaming...

 

OK Tim - you asked for it. Panamera? Yikes! I hope it looks better in the metal than in pictures.