I'm new to Porsche, and I plan on buying a 997s.
I came from a Corvette c5, and at HPDEs in summer at Sebring I had a real bad problem with my brakes fading. Turn 7 was always scarry. I solved the fading by switching to Carbotech 8/10 pads, but would land up melting just about everything rubber around the front calipers and rotors. I obviously needed more cooling, but I sold the car before I installed a better system. (spindle ducts)
My question is, how good are the 997s brakes? Do I need to switch pads, and if so, do I need to somehow alter the cooling?

Also if there are any other good threads on this or other forums please link them in here.... Thanks.

 

997S pads brakes are insane!!

I have done:

6+ AX Days
9+ Track Days

and my pads still have 50+% life left!

The last was at Willow Springs Big Track, which has one of the fastest turn in racing: turn 8 & 9.

I was going into turn 8 at 110 mph (it was my first time at this track so I did not push it) then through the straight away would hit 125-135MPH.

At the end of the straight at 130+ mph, I would slam on my brakes and slow down to 60 mph for turn 1.

I was late braking and did over 125 miles in laps.

I had no brake fade, and the brakes never overheated or smoked!

My brakes are 100% Stock.

The only change I made was SS lines and racing brake fluid (high recommend both!)

No reason to upgrade until i wear through the rotors then I will look at stoptech or brembo vented rotors.

PORSCHE's ARE FAMOUS FOR THERE BRAKES!

 

I went through one set last year (13 track days and 1800 miles on the track), but replaced them with OEM pads again. I may move to a Pagid pad, but I never had any fade or brake failures.

I too replaced my lines with Stainless, and made an nice improvement.

I did change my brake fluid every one to two track days depending on the track and milage. The OEM brakes are more then enough for my needs.

I did go through 2 1/2 sets of tires last year.

 

Every car is different and the Corvette is notorious for being under braked.
The Porsche in stock trim will already be a dramatic improvement, and I generally recommend starting in stock trim and them making adjustments as you notice the weakness'.

From experience, the first weak point will be the pads, and as you can see, two other owners have already stated that they have been OK with OEM pads.
Granted, the big tack at Willow Springs is not hard on brakes at all, but if you can lap all day at any track and not notice a single issue that's a great sign. The first time you do induce fade it will be either fluid or pad related, so if you simply want to avoid that possibility all together upgrade to braided lines, fresh fluid, and a Pagid pad right off the bat.

If you want one pad that works for both street and track, the Pagid RS4-2 (blue) is an amazing compoundKeep in mind that pad compounds are like tires, and anytime you try to find one choice for both types of driving there is always a compromise. The Pagid blue has very little compromise, but if you are comfortable swapping pads at the track, my favorite combination is the RS19 or RS 29 front and rear.

With those 3 changes you are going to be pretty well off.
There are still benefits to be had with upgrades beyond that, like 2pc. lightweight discs or a full brake kit, but that comes when you are ready to find more ways to lower your lap times, shave lbs. off of the car, and/or improve the life span of the components at the track.

 

I had this from forever, not sure if it's still accurate, but I doubt Pagid has made a ton of changes in their compounds, this gives you some idea where they lay out on the Mu side of things. FWIW, the pagid blue and Ferodo DS2500 were my favorite pads (in an Audi for mixed street/hpde, tried about 10 different compounds). Never got to try the PFC stuff though...

 

Jmon, I track my 997S at Sebring too and I know that the summers are brutal there and the track compared to some others is hard on brakes.

You will love the 997S brakes. The only mods you need to do in flush out the stock fluid and put in either Motul600 or Castrol SRF. Also the GT3 brake ducts snap in place and offer better cooling that the stock 997 2005-08 ducts...they are only like $25 from Suncoast Porsche in Sarasota.

I have run Pagid Yellow RS29's and Performance Friction PF97. I like both but they are a little different feeling. The PF97's seems to grab quicker and harder plus there is zero pad bed in with the PF97. The Pagid RS29 seems to last a DW longer...not a big deal.

Check out Vortex Motorsports on Hillsboro Ave by the Airport for your tech inspection (free) and fluid and pad changes. Vortex also has the GT3 brake ducts.

If you want to come over to my house I can show you how simple it is to change the pads out. Let me know if you need any help. If you are going to the April Chin event look me up. I am an instructor and run a red 09 Carrera S.

 

Ryan, cool graph.

Could you spend a few minutes explaining the results.

 

NorthVan it is the for lack of better word...the stopping power/torque vs the the temp of various Pagid pads. The blacks grab the most then on down...also there is different wear characteristics too.
A lot of guys will run yellows (yellow graph line) in front and blacks (black graph line) in back to change the brake bias of the 05-08 997S. Although I was told from some of the teachers and one of them did tests for Porsche that the brake bias changed in 06 and 07 to give the rears a little more stopping power. This will help in the nose dive you might experiance under threshold braking.

 

Stock pad, change the fluid and go. I have driven a couple of other cars (M3 and S4) on the track. Both have horrific fade. A friend (who is faster than I am) with a 996 and a 996TT has no issues with stock pads. He is also running r-compound tires super sticky tires which usually scorch brakes because of the increased grip.

 

Thanks Mike, I thought that the RS4 was something to do with Ryan's Audi.

If the Black is so much better, on braking why is the Yellow the way that so many people go? Too Loud? Too much dust? Short Pad Life?

 

Basically the Mu or Coefficient of Friction (C/F) of any pad changes with temperature. Like mentioned above, pads designed for the track are typically bad on the street and the opposite as well. But back to the graph, this basically tells you given a temperature, how much C/F each pad will generate. The higher the C/F, the "harder" the pad is, so the more rotor wear you'll get. On the street, the high C/F pad will almost always make a screeching noise at low speed stops with no heat in the brakes. This is usually annoying enough that no one runs track pads on the street. Not to mention they tear through your rotors faster and aren't really benefiting you in any way (on the street).

The real use in a chart like this is to pick the right compound given the temperature that the fronts or rears are running at. So some temp strips would be great to see what your actual max temps are, and then you can get a good idea given your pad choice where things are running at while on track.

On this graph the Orange (RS44) seems to be quite the pad as they have a nice low C/F at cold temps for friendly around town driving, and they climb up the C/F with temp increase. The yellow and black are more track oriented as they are very flat in their C/F offering consistent braking through a wide temp range. As is normal, the pads all start dropping off at > 1000F.

Mike is spot on as well, we would do the same in the Audi's (run a stronger rear pad) to get more rear brake bias in the car, so knowing how the pads differ to each other can help you use compounds as a tuning aid (along with knowing your temps and having the chart).

If you don't have the sticker temp gauges, then you can always have a friend ready in the hot pits with a temp gun and come in on a hot lap and quickly hit the caliper and rotor (mid to late session) to get a good idea. Stickers are still better though, but you can't put one of those on the rotor.

On that note, changing the rotor size from say 320mm to 380mm has a minuscule affect on brake bias relative to something like a compound change. Think of brake pads like tires, they have the biggest impact on affecting changes to braking, especially in a car with such good factory brakes to start with.

 

I understand that braking is all relative to friction/grip, and that an increased rotor size isn't always the best solution to increase braking performance.

From what I have heard, putting yellow's on all 4 corners on the 997 is a better set up then a Black Yellow combo (which was very common on the 996's) as the brake bias has been changed (my car is a good example of the rear bias, as I have discoloured my rear calipers due to heat build up, where as the fronts look fine).

Thank you for a thorough explanation. Rep points to you and Mike.

 

In the Pagid line from most Pure track oriented to street is this the order?
Black, Yellow, Orange, Blue.

Where would PF 97 and the stock pads fall in line?

Also where could I buy PF-97 pads if I wanted to use those? I like the comment about not needing a comprehensive bedding procedure.

I went on-line and looked at the pads from www.pelicanparts.com But got confused when looking at the street pads. They list Pagid, Porsche and Textar. Is the Pagid that is listed the Blue?

Do any of you guys run a low dust street pad, and another set for the track that are compatible in that the material left on the rotor doesn’t cause problems.

 

the Performance Friction Pads that will fit 2006-2009 Carrera S cars with the red calipers are:

Front 7818.997.17.44
Rear 0776.997.17.44

Google Performance Friction Brake Pads Porsche...there are many places to buy these from.

 

mdrums, I'll be at the Chin event on 4/18. I'll stop buy and say hi...