trust me, i have learned a lesson or 2 today

 

No forum driving advice will raise your driving skills. Go seek help soon. And... use common sense... no driving technique or nannies will save you if you enter a turn too fast - once you lose traction there's no salvation. Common sense, right?

 

This discussion has come up several times. You cannot become an experienced driver with out experience. That turn should have been a controlled 4 wheel drift from the apex out. Two words "Driving School". This will show you how to handle the car and make it work for u. With the experience comes the knowledge that wont let you put you or anyone else in that position again.Glad you kept it together.

 

If this is the case, you should know the road like the back of your hand!

Driving fast on public roads is foolhardy, showboating for a friend is putting them and you as great risk!
You are very lucky!

 

If you were closer, I'd teach you car control. Look into PCA AutoX events or track events so you can practice this stuff safely. A good car doesn't make you a good driver, eh?

The best advice is to brake as much as you can before the turn and get off of hard braking before turning. If its too late for that, let off the gas SLIGHTLY to transfer some of the car's weight forward. This will give the front tires more grip and start to slow you down. Turn into the corner and when you start to feel the rear come around, you turn the opposite way (This is the counter-intuitive part). So you're basically taking a left hand turn but turning right. The more you're sliding, the more you turn. You basically want to be pointing the tires to where you want to go. Grip the wheel firmly but not rigidly because the car will be fighting it out of your hands in a big fast slide. BTW, the faster you're going, the faster you're likely going to need to react.

I was really happy I've learned power sliding because when I was on track once, an old Porsche dumped the entire contents of its oil on one of the fastest parts of Limerock (back straight) and on the driving line. I saw one guy go flying off in front of me, then another, then saw a few off-track...Crap everyone was going off!! I hit the oil and the car immediately snapped sideways - there was no warning, it just let go. I immedaitely & instinctively counter turned all the way to opposite lock and scrubbed some speed by letting off throttle slightly. I stayed on track - one of only two people to keep it together before the rest of the field realized what was ahead via the flaggers. Amazingly, about 15 cars went off in the same spot and I think only one car bumped the tires softly. A Ford GT was one of the cars to go off! Very lucky for everyone that day.

So, this takes a lot of practice to feel natural, but once it does, its intoxicating and makes you a better, safer driver.

Anyway, back to car control, if you've done the above and still its too late, the best advice is "both feet in" - the brakes to help stop you, and the clutch to save your transmission and keep you from stalling. This also causes the car to basically go in a straight line because that's what physics dictates.. an object in motion continues in motion unless other forces are acted upon it - Slamming the brakes essentially removes all ability to turn (There are some exceptions, like with ABS cars, but in general if you're going in so hot, ABS will do little to save you). This theory is also good if there are people behind you (like there would be on-track) because they can anticipate where you're going and steer away. If you don't go all in, you're likely to go off track and then slingshot across and back over into traffic.

I recommend you practice this a bit.. go into a 10 mph corner with lots of run-off and two lanes where no one is around. Goose it enough to get the tires spinning while turning and then get off the gas, not fully, to about 1/2 throttle and hold it there. If you've done it aggressively enough, you'll be sliding and the rear will be coming around. Now quickly steer "into it" - the opposite direction from where you were initiallly turning (remember, this is the counter intuitive part from above). As the car recovers from the slide, force the wheel back to straight and give it more gas to maintain the slide and smooth out the switchback to grip land.

Hopefully that makes sense. Oh, and practice with left hand turns first, they're easier.

Oh and in response to Adias's post, I do not recommend you try any of the above, its dangerous.

 

Very helpful writeup and I'm happy to hear that the original poster came away unscathed. I've never raced cars, nor been to driving school (the latter I intend to address), but I did race sprint karts when I was in my teens and I must say that it is an extremely effective way of learning to race, counter-steer, manage and controled skidding, etc.
That, and running cars of all sorts hard and fast in the ice and snow of upstate NY taught me some very helpful basic instincts.
But I do have a question that I've been pondering for some time. Having never raced a car that has all of the electronic controls that our P-cars have, do they react the same way that an 'old fashioned' car does? That is, when you get crossed up and try to keep the rear end out using your right foot, will the nannies hit the brakes, reduce engine horsepower, etc.? I was under the impression that all of these things are designed to limit all the things that an experienced driver does as second nature.
Yes, of course you could hit that little switch in the lower right center console, but that would take a bit of preparation.

 

Had this been 1989 instead of current --his car may have lost it . The "old fashoned" Porsches had a very tricky rear end .

No matter how much driving school anyone wants to tout -or how much experience -- a 15 MPH curve with trees is a recipe for problems .

Maybe he was a little more nervous than a seasoned veteran driver but he didn't hit anything so his end result wouild have been the desired outcome.

In fact -his nervousness might actually work to his advanatage . It doesn't sound like he's planning any future speed runs on that street . That's a good thing -IMO.

 

People giving driving skill advice in a forum are treading on thin ice... watch your liability coverage.

The sensible advice is to suggest enrolling into established DE programs.

 

I think the only "advice" is not to drive like that on a 15MPH street . Driving school or otherwise.

 

First off, I'm glad both of you are ok.

I have mixed emotions about your post. On one hand, I totally understand the need for speed. It is also exciting to have such a amazing machine to control.

On the other hand, 15mph is 15mph. And since I firmly believe that things usually go wrong when 1) one is in a hurry or 2) one is trying to show off then you have a recipe for disaster.

There are a plethora of people on this forum who are excellent drivers and who do wonders on the track. However, this is a public road and you are putting 2 lives at risk + anybody else traveling the other way.

Unlike the finest german engineering, if you or your friend gets hurt, has traumatic brain injury or dies, the time it will take to restore everything back to normal is never.

I am preaching to nobody more than myself, since I have quite a few examples where I was very very lucky and at least a few friends who were tragically not so.

My advice is to have respect for health and life in general. No amount of training will substitute for a dose of healthy caution.

Wish you many more years of enjoying your ride.

Newb

 

From my limited autox experience, I would say you'd be surprised how good our brakes are. Don't be shy to use them right before turning. +1 on taking your car to the local autox for some learning.

 

I totally agree. My advice for the OP to enroll in DE is no remedy for him to race in public roads.

 

Well, if you are seriously too fast at turn in, you're kind of screwed. All I can offer, it's better to go off forwards than backwards. You always have some length of straight pavement between you and the grass, so hard on the brakes, off the brakes as you reach the edge of pavement. Maybe you can keep it on, if not, maybe you can steer it some in the grass, something you can't do if spinning. Of course, all this requires the use of all the pavement, and if I'm meeting you with my family in the car, we've got a problem. Don't drive like an idiot on the street. We've all done it, and maybe you've learned your lesson without tragedy. Consider yourself lucky, and be safe. These lessons are much more fun on track.

 

Too much to read, so forgive me if I repeat.

Step 1, don't drive like that on the street.
Step 2, do join PCA and start the DE process to learn how to handle situations like that.
Step 3, when you develop the skills, you'll find they become second nature and help you every day avoiding incidents.

Cheers!

 

Bara, I am sure more people have done something like this then they will admit. I am sure that part of it was the fact that you had a passenger in your car to show them why a Porsche is such a great car, the one thing that I tell myself when ever I have the urge to drive beyond the safe limit for the conditions, is people with fast cars don't need to prove they are fast.

I take mine to the track, and the more I do the slower I drive on the road. It is the most enjoyable thing you can do with your 997, (the second is moding it for the track)