The playing field is starting to level out. No longer do you get droves of customers going in blind and believing what the stealer tells them about invertory, prices and availability. Unfortunately for the vast dealers out there in trouble right now...what goes around comes around.
I can't help but to feel sorry for some of these poor salesmen who have a family, a home and hungry mouths to feed but when you rely on a corrupt business to make your livelihood, you live and die by the sword.

 

I hope they are reading . The problem is that it's usually the saleperson who is reading and nodding his head in agreement along with us . He's tired of losing sales .

It's the upper management which sits in denial . It's easier for them to blame their staff or the economy instead of re examine their position and adapt to the current market climate .

After all this thread has posters from all regions of North America and we are all saying the same thing . It's not just me or my region.

The salesperson is probably wondering what if he linked this thread to management . Would it enlighten them after years of those around them saying "yes sir" ? Would it open their eyes to the glory days of MSRP cars flying off the lot being a thing if the past ? Would they look at themselves at all ?

I don't think most will but the select few who do might just improve their sales .

 

Not to get too philosophical on everyone but 'humility' is a virtue that is inconsistent with capitalism. This recession is the great equilizer, the hurricane Katrina of economies and affected rich, poor, educated and blue collar. People are starting to get humbled and reorient their compasses and the ways of the good ole' days no longer apply. I think you are correct Larry, people are getting more enlightened (again for the better). Maybe we'll start treating each other more like humans....

 

This is one of the best threads I have read in a while!! Everything commented here is 100% on point! After doing four months of research looking at used 996s and 997s, watching prices come down and figuring out I would be able to get into an early 997 (ended up with a BEAUTIFUL, mint condition '05 997S with 15k miles on it for $52 that I purchased from Champion Motors in Long Island, although they screwed around with me on the price and I ended up having to negotiate to a price that was promised before I even showed up), I was APPALLED at the disparity between what the stupid dealerships were asking for their used inventory compared to the private market. Princeton Porsche is one of the biggest offenders in the Central New Jersey market. They were trying to sell a stripped down base 997 with 38k miles on it for $49k, and never moved their price! That car sat on the lot for (as far as I could tell) a couple months, and I'm sure they finally lowered it to sell.

DEALERSHIPS WAKE UP!! We realize you are somewhat responsible for the integrity of the market, but COME ON! Stay on the curve. You're only hurting yourselves and making people look elsewhere.

 

I dont mean to offend anyone but lets face it the people who own a dealership or work for the dealership are not rocket scientists....it may take them a bit longer to learn what many of us have come to realize.

The banks didnt catch on until it was too late.....hopefully some of them wont let history repeat itself...for those that cant or wont make the adjustment......later.

 

While at the local Toyota dealer having our Tundra oil changed, I was walking around the showroom looking at new rigs and not one salesman approached me and I was in one of those moods to maybe trade in and buy something new.

I found one guy and spent a while taking with him. He told me that now is a terrible time to buy, that I would be insulted with the trade in value of my 07 Tundra, and that one of their lenders has gone as far as offering them a bonus if they direct customers to 'other' lending institutions.

I asked him why there were no sales, no incentives to get me to buy and he just shook his head and said he did not know. All he knew is they were not selling anything, and told me quietly that I should wait and not buy now.

 

Perhaps he was a disgruntled employee. I think it is a great time to buy right now as long as you don't have a big trade in and your credit is excellent. Obama's tax credit, a glut of cars in the lots, stealers in a cash crunch all surmount to a buyer's perfect storm. As time goes by, car makers will reduce their output production to meet demand or the lack of, which will mean less cars on the lots and prices going back up.

 

Porsche actually did cut way back on production as I was trying to get on the list for a 09S PDK in the summer and fall of 2008 from my long time dealer and was told I had to wait several months for an open production slot due to Porsche cutting back on cars to be produced (twice between Sept and Dec alone)...apparently Porsche had the feeling things were going to get pretty bad.

Now with that said, I would love for some of these dealers (all high end brands) especially those in big dollar areas to get a strong dose of reality and start dealing like they haven't had to for years...in good/decent times these guy's took advantage of many hard working professionals for years and years not only in price but trade in and finance. In my business I don't have to significantly discount my fees... but for good clients I do and without reservation because I see the bigger picture.

Over the last 6 mos I have sent 6 potential customers for new Porsches/BMW's to the dealership where I personally know the GM from whom I've purchased many cars from over the years...they were only able to close 2 of the 6 as the other 4 had to go out of the area to get an appropriate/favorable deal in this weak economic environment. Unfortunately when it comes to service these guys will probably not be getting Porsche loaners or may not even get a rental since they did not buy from the servicing dealership; Porsche and all the other High end Euro car co's should all have a standardized loaner programs just like Lexus.

 

Production being less won't matter because they are playing to a smaller audience . In short most people lost money in recent times . Even those who made money have a house that is worth less , cars worth less, commodities worth less and cost of living prices spiked and then tapered .

Less people are lining up to buy these cars . Go in and offer the dealership 30K over MSRP and see how quicky a car to your spec will appear . They will find one --somehow .

The problem is that they already have too many cars . Ok so maybe you won't get exactly the specs you want but a buyer at this time has a huge inventory to choose from .

And so what if you can't get a slot ? Then just wait . If a dealership says they have to charge more anyone can point to their trade in value cut in half and say "well if my car is worthless then yours will be too --in two years"

Bottom line is .. the dealerships lost . In the old days M3's would be sold out and dealerships would have no inventory of 997.2's but in current times EVERY dealership has cars . Tell one "no " and there's 10 others who might have a similar car and it only takes one to say yes . Or even worse .. customers could pass it up altogether and wait for the dealerships to get REALLY desperate .

 

Lastly --service and loaners -- those decisions are made from upper management . The guys in service (as well as the sales persons) are not the ones who decide . In fact in many cases they are overworked , underpaid , and face the brunt of criticism and blame both from the customers and management .

In the past the large audience of buyers and high demand empowered the management . They had the car . We wanted it .
Those days are over . No one wants the car if its overpriced and rapidly depreciating more than ever . They can keep it . So can BMW with their hideous Bangled 5 series (which customers pleaded for years to DeBangle) , and mass produced M3's , So can Mercedes with all those used E350's which had lease buyouts 10K higher than the car is worth .

They are stuck !!! The buyers rule !!!!

 

When was the last time you even saw a 911 special factory lease program advertised on the Porsche website? Are they even doing one now in these tough times...nope. Porsche's website doesn't even have a place for lease/finance specials last I looked. MB even has great factory lease/finance deals on AMG vehicles from time to time...I belive now there is 1.9% financing including all the AMG's.

As I mentioned in my post a few spots up, the folks I referred to my local dealership couldn't get a great deal and they even shopped the other two stores in the area, one being the largest in the world and they still had to go out of the area to get a strong deal...how sad.

Like I also said above, loaner cars should be a factory program ie Lexus...bring in a Lexus for Service get a Lexus to drive 99% of the time and the plan does not vary dealer to dealer.

 

Porsche does have a special program going now on 09's

.00146 money factor and your ablility to negotiate down from the MSRP

 

But it's not on their website as I mentioned, nor do they have a factory backed lease payment where there's no haggling needed. What I've found in the past dealing with Porsche Credit/Financial is they never have both a great money factor and a great residual at the same time. I bought a new 06 AMG E55 in 06 , the car had an MSRP of about $95K and they were advertising it on the MBUSA website; a 39 mo $999 payment with 10k miles per year, there was also about $6k total out of pocket which included first mo's payment...this made it very enticing for the consumer and they sold almost all of the remaining 06's (which happened to be the last year of the 516 lbft of trq supercharged monsters). I used a car broker and he was even able to get me a car with more options for the same price, but again he had to go out of our immediate area.
In my area South FL there are not very many "great deals" to be had at the moment on a new 997.2 PDK car and the last buyer I referred bought a new '09 turbo cab 6 speed and even he had to go out of the area to get a great deal and the local dealers had a few in stock at the time...amazing.

 

Porsche is too wise not to advertize the lease program on their website yet the current lease deals posted by forum members are like none in the past . The few times I ever looked into a Porsche lease years ago it was so high that it almost paid for the car by the time the term was up. Not the case these days .

As good as it is it's not not great . The dealerships do have cars . If they are not giving you a deal then perhpas they haven't realized what is being talked about on this thread . They really haven't woken up yet. They had it so good for so long in the volume selling regions that it may even take longer for them to adapt .

Don't blame it on the saleman or the service guys . They want to sell cars and service them . Most of them are hard working guys.

Upper management runs the dealership .

 

As you may remember from our previous chats I personally get a great selling price even on ordered Porsches because of my purchasing history over the years and my relationship with the GM who is part owner, but as I mentioned the Porsche Financial lease programs are not great. I know the dealerships have cars on the lots but they also had cars on the lot even in good times...Porsche cut back on their production knowing that there was going to be less qualified buyers, so in their mind it evens itself out.

Porsche is all about making money and has been ever since they switched over to the water cooled platforms in 1998; back in 1994 they called the Japs in to show them how to produce a car for so much less than the had to and were doing at the time. Porsche also makes the highest amount of profit per car than ANY other manufacturer...just ask Dr. Wendelin Wiedeking he loves to talk about it to the shareholders.