I was with a buddy at Sebring today. He's got an 09 S. We didn't really get much of an opportunity to mix it up on the track, but we did do a few roll ons on the way home. The cars were pretty much dead even. How is this possible? I have at least 120hp on him with my supercharger. I have run other cars with similar HP ratings to mine and the runs were very close. How is the .2 "S" able to match this performance with such a HP deficit. I was very impressed to say the least. Are they way under rated at 385?

 

I have had numerous times where I have pulled on 996 TT on the track, they have a 100hp on my car. They 997's are geared very well and surprise a lot of people as to how fast they are.

 

Dog, he is just faster than you! LOL~

How'd it go today? Everytime I stopped by you were either gone or debreifing with your instructor. Good to see you finally at the track though...I am sure you are learning a lot.

 

I think a 997.2 will take a supercharged 996 even on a straight line . It would even give a stock Turbo a run until it hits third gear (where Turbo legends are formed) . It is no contest for a modded Turbo and a EVT700 will cream it sideways into oblivion.

The 997.2 is light , structurally superior, and utilizes the Hp with efficiency, and if it has PDK can shift split second .

In fact --for the dollar I feel that the 997.2 S is a great Porsche value .. it's a fantastic car -- but as fast as it is .. it is still not the fastest kid on the block .

 

It still boggles my mind that I can't pull him with so much of a hp advantage.

It went really well. I was disappointed we didn't get a chance to chat more.

My instructor was very good, but a little on the chatty side I certainly can't question his skills or knowledge of the track though. When Nick got bumped up to the blue class, I was watching from my hotel room and he was staying within 4 seconds of Nick (09 997 S) in his 4 door Infiniti G35

For whatever reason he didn't want to move me up, even though he kept saying how well I was doing well (note: I have a lot more more to learn!!!). The last day I was there in 2008, I was told I was going to move up but my instructor never did my eval. My instructor this time was determined to keep me in the green for the day, and the next day, despite the fact that I was lapping some cars 2-3x. Ironically at our final "debrief" for the day, the President and another instructor walked up and said "whoever is driving this yellow car needs to get the hell out of the green class already" He was still hesitent... Who knows? I guess it varies from instructor to instructor. I'm no expert at this but it's hard to learn new skills when you keep coming up on trains of people traveling at a parade lap pace.

 

No PDK on this one though. We did some rolls from 3rd into the top of 4th. Again, we were about dead even and I'm making 435 to the wheels.

How much do they weigh? My car weighs 3450. I would be shocked if a .2S is less than 3250. I've run 996's, 996 S's, 997's, even stock turbos (996)... No problem pulling them. I've even hung with (stayed within 3-5 car lengths of modded turbos) from 70mph-"I won't post on here speeds".

Forget about handling and what not, there should be no reason I shouldn't be able to destroy this car in a straight line. What is it exactly that makes this car so damn quick for it's HP rating? I could see if it was 2700 pounds, but I know it's not... I ran a 997 turbo (stock other than the exhaust) from about 30-90 and stayed right on his bumper.

If you had no intention of trying to get more HP out of car, the new S may be the best value that Porsche has to offer right now.

 

I agree totally having had a 2007 C2S w/ headers, cats, and software that did improve power and torque. My 09 is still "new", but I'm feeling it is far quicker and handles much better than my 07 C2S and is basically on-par with my 07 GT3. At Monticello just about a week ago I was having my first DE with her. So, learning the new car and all, yet the car just pulled me along. In combined Black / Red I kept finding (and passing) guys in their 996 and 997 GT3s that I'd run with before. My closure rate and cornering was faster than it was in my 07 and on par with my GT3. Some sort of "magic" went into the 997.2...

 

Reason why the 997 c2s pdk is substantially faster:

1. Compression has been increased substantially
2. Direct fuel injection
3. Gearing ratio
4. Ultra fast shifts without power interuption
5. Less moving parts that equates to more efficiency
6. Now has lsd equipped

 

I don't have PDK and gearing is the same with a minor tweak in 3rd...

 

Must be magic then

All the stuff about DFI/compression/whatever make sense as to how they get so much HP about of the 3.8, but the fact of the matter remains that I still have appox. a 115-125 crank HP advantage and we're about even. That just doesn't make sense....

I guess my next question is how much do they weigh? My buddies car is a 6speed manual with typical options.

 

anywhere in tampa we could weight my 09 carrera s pdk?

 

Seeing this thread puts such a giant smile on my face Andrew....

I can say without a doubt I am so happy I bought this car. Putting the car on the track really made me realize what all this "Porsche hysteria" comes from. The car gave me a lot of confidence in pushing it farther and farther. Only problem I kept having was downshifting to 2nd at the Hairpin at sebring. My heel/toe needs a lot of work on that car. This is why I hate PDK's (Mike and Dennis). Its unfair and I'm jealous that all it takes is a flick at the button to downshift.

In all seriousness, I was pretty shocked also. It seemed the car's were literally dead even. But andrew, that was only in a straight line. What happened to you on the sebring racetrack yesterday should be censored. Once I had the big bird in my sights, it was all over. It was just like the movie 300. The Greek just dominated the race track....

 

The before and after (supercharger removal) lap times at Heartland Park in Topeka with my 2005 997S were 3 seconds per lap FASTER without the supercharger. This was Traqmate data which showed that I was about 5 mph slower at the end of the longest straight (fourth gear) without the blower, but quicker everywhere else on the track. The only other variables were other weight reduction mods (just under 3000 lbs without gas in the tank) and Hoosiers instead of R888's. Not a perfect apples to apples comparison, but same car and driver with and without the blower. On the track, the supercharger just generates too much heat to maintain the cold horsepower advantage you're measuring on the dyno. In addition, that's a lot of extra weight behind the rear axle that you can definitely feel in the corners.

I would like to know what the 997.2 weighs versus the version 1, but I suspect that it has just got everything optimized to extract its improved performance.

 

as you guys are learning it's not all about HP. Greek and Dog, you guys are now much better drivers than just a few months ago. I m happy you listened and got into DE's!

Next is Pagid RS29 Yellow pads and Toyo R888 tires! Swaping out the pads takes about 1 minute per wheel, silly simple. Come over and I will show you.

 

I am sure that the Hoosiers had a big part of the faster time. I have heard that on a 1:30 track they are good for a few seconds at least.

I am surprised that the blower made you slower, but as I said before the 997S (1 or 2) is a very fast car when driven well.

Thanks for being so candid.