997 Clutch life
#16
06-07-2009, 06:20 PM
As a tangent but still a bit on topic. I know a guy that had a 2000 E39 M5 that he owned since new. Driven as his daily the clutch went out after 9k miles. He traded in the '00 on a new (at the time) '02 M5, and the original clutch is still there after 80k miles. Point is perhaps there could be a variety of factors which go into the life a clutch outside of driving style. Manufacturing defects, parts suppliers change, small updates, etc...
#17
06-07-2009, 06:21 PM
This is one area where I have to agree with 1999Porsche911. I easily exceeded 100,000 miles on my 911 clutches. It's all in learning how to drive a stick. When I first started driving a stick I was terrible, going through a clutch in less than 50,000 miles. Some of that, I've been told, is attributable to smaller HP engines,--people have a tendency to slip clutches to make up for power shortcomings. Once I learned what was going on inside the clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, and throwout bearing, I never had to replace a clutch again. When I traded in my 1977 911S (purchased new) in 1983 for another 911, it needed an engine rebuild. (Typical of the magnesium cases.) When they tore it apart to rebuilt it at about 115,000 miles they simply left that original clutch in,--it had plenty of clutch lining left.
The 997S has another plus over the 997 which is a self-adjusting clutch. If you're in the market for a used 997 I would never consider a car that needed a new clutch in such a short time. Imagine what other things have been abused on that car, e.g., synchros, etc.
The 997S has another plus over the 997 which is a self-adjusting clutch. If you're in the market for a used 997 I would never consider a car that needed a new clutch in such a short time. Imagine what other things have been abused on that car, e.g., synchros, etc.
#18
06-07-2009, 06:24 PM
If you are only getting 32,000 miles, you should move to the PDK. Clutch change cost at an indy is between $1200 and $1500, including the kit.
BTW: How about a wager of a new car that I currently have a car that has more than 210,000 miles on it and the orginal clutch? Just because some people can't properly driive a stick doesn't mean the rest of us have a problem. But, then again, you also think a 997.2 would pull away from a supercharged 996 in a straight line
BTW: How about a wager of a new car that I currently have a car that has more than 210,000 miles on it and the orginal clutch? Just because some people can't properly driive a stick doesn't mean the rest of us have a problem. But, then again, you also think a 997.2 would pull away from a supercharged 996 in a straight line
I did replace my clutch in my Turbo ONLY because a 700 Hp increase meant jumping to a stage 3 clutch . The car had under 4K miles and the stock clutch held 600 Hp with no problems. Plus I did a Gt2 conversion on it . It wasn't cheap.
#19
06-07-2009, 06:31 PM
This is one area where I have to agree with 1999Porsche911. I easily exceeded 100,000 miles on my 911 clutches. It's all in learning how to drive a stick. When I first started driving a stick I was terrible, going through a clutch in less than 50,000 miles. Some of that, I've been told, is attributable to smaller HP engines,--people have a tendency to slip clutches to make up for power shortcomings. Once I learned what was going on inside the clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, and throwout bearing, I never had to replace a clutch again. .
Are you ready to attribute all mechanical wear related breakdown to lack of driver skill ? Would a worn out seat be a result of a big butt?
I have never kept a car to 100K miles in my life . I would be bored to tears with it by then , But if I did I would accept routine wear as a fact of life rather than blame myself when things wear out.
#20
06-07-2009, 06:43 PM
you also think a 997.2 would pull away from a supercharged 996 in a straight line
#21
06-07-2009, 06:52 PM
I know-well how to drive a 6 speed. My guess, as to why my clutch wore out at 32k miles is: my wife got stuck (badly) on our steep driveway, going up and down, etc. Painful, you get the picture. The whole garage stank of clutch when I got home. Or the previous owner (I acquired it at 12k miles) was heavy on it.
My point is: if you know what you're doing you should certainly get far more than 30k miles. But if you let someone unfamiliar with it drive it, it doesn't take much to burn it out prematurely.
Now, with my Stage2 clutch, it's tricky- there's very little gray area to it, it's either engaged or not, so you'd better 1.) have the rpm's ready, and 2.) have room in front of you. I now pay the valet to watch me park it.
CATTMAN
My point is: if you know what you're doing you should certainly get far more than 30k miles. But if you let someone unfamiliar with it drive it, it doesn't take much to burn it out prematurely.
Now, with my Stage2 clutch, it's tricky- there's very little gray area to it, it's either engaged or not, so you'd better 1.) have the rpm's ready, and 2.) have room in front of you. I now pay the valet to watch me park it.
CATTMAN
#23
06-07-2009, 07:01 PM
I know you are a mechanic of some kind, but surely you must know that the type of driving will impact the life of the clutch. 210k miles on the highway, 210k miles in the city, I doubt that it is possible. A clutch is like a brake pedal, it is designed to wear when used, don't use your brakes, they will last for ever. To say someone that can only get 32k on a clutch should move to a PDK is one of the least thought out statements you have made on this forum. Normally I respect your opinion, but you are off on this one.
Every independent and dealer I spoken to says 30-50k miles is the average.
Every independent and dealer I spoken to says 30-50k miles is the average.
#24
06-07-2009, 07:32 PM
OK. Question for you guys getting high mileage out of your clutch. Can you post what it is that you do that you feel others don't? What are your tips on how to a) get maximum life out of a 997 clutch and b) properly drive a manual transmission 997?
Last edited by swajames; 06-07-2009 at 10:46 PM.
#25
06-07-2009, 10:09 PM
#26
06-07-2009, 10:40 PM
When upshifting, don't lay on the gas until you have the clutch fully engaged.
#27
06-07-2009, 11:34 PM
There are many posts on this forum (search feature) which discuss clutch issues. The extreme cases require replacement and the mild still require an in house service . Porsche requires major maintenace at varous intervals (PDF) http://www.porsche.com/filestore.asp...letype=default
Here is an example of one member facing a big hurdle at 17500 mi and on the thread it was not uncommon to see 30K and 50K miles are possibilies .
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...need-help.html
Guessing the life expectancy of an auto part is speculative but if one is buying a used car there is unknown history .
in Rye's case it's a good question to ask because he's looking at cars .
Of course some drivers are careless but unless Porsche offered a 200K mi full cluch replacemrnt warranty on all cars (which they don't) then the bill will be handed to the car owner .
Whether it's at 17K mi , 30K mi , 50K mi or 200K mi --it's not a cheap repair .
Here is an example of one member facing a big hurdle at 17500 mi and on the thread it was not uncommon to see 30K and 50K miles are possibilies .
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...need-help.html
Guessing the life expectancy of an auto part is speculative but if one is buying a used car there is unknown history .
in Rye's case it's a good question to ask because he's looking at cars .
Of course some drivers are careless but unless Porsche offered a 200K mi full cluch replacemrnt warranty on all cars (which they don't) then the bill will be handed to the car owner .
Whether it's at 17K mi , 30K mi , 50K mi or 200K mi --it's not a cheap repair .
#28
06-08-2009, 07:31 AM
Jeez - if the clutch in my 997 wears out after 50,000kms I'll have to trade it in on an Auto sedan. Never heard such nonsense.
We regularly keep our cars for 5 years and many have been manuals. Haven't replaced a clutch since the early 90's and that was in a 150,000km old Alfa which was owned by someone else for the first 100,000km.
Come to think of it my 1973 Alfa GTV still has it's original clutch after 93,000 miles.
We regularly keep our cars for 5 years and many have been manuals. Haven't replaced a clutch since the early 90's and that was in a 150,000km old Alfa which was owned by someone else for the first 100,000km.
Come to think of it my 1973 Alfa GTV still has it's original clutch after 93,000 miles.
#30
06-11-2009, 10:38 PM
This is one area where I have to agree with 1999Porsche911. I easily exceeded 100,000 miles on my 911 clutches. It's all in learning how to drive a stick. When I first started driving a stick I was terrible, going through a clutch in less than 50,000 miles. Some of that, I've been told, is attributable to smaller HP engines,--people have a tendency to slip clutches to make up for power shortcomings. Once I learned what was going on inside the clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, and throwout bearing, I never had to replace a clutch again. When I traded in my 1977 911S (purchased new) in 1983 for another 911, it needed an engine rebuild. (Typical of the magnesium cases.) When they tore it apart to rebuilt it at about 115,000 miles they simply left that original clutch in,--it had plenty of clutch lining left.
The 997S has another plus over the 997 which is a self-adjusting clutch. If you're in the market for a used 997 I would never consider a car that needed a new clutch in such a short time. Imagine what other things have been abused on that car, e.g., synchros, etc.
The 997S has another plus over the 997 which is a self-adjusting clutch. If you're in the market for a used 997 I would never consider a car that needed a new clutch in such a short time. Imagine what other things have been abused on that car, e.g., synchros, etc.
And these people who make their clutches last are no slow-pokes either, many actually push the car to very high limits, it's just that they are not drag strip drivers.It's ridiculous to see a 911 in a 1/4 mile contest. It just does not belong there. YMMV.
Last edited by adias; 06-11-2009 at 10:41 PM.