I was told by several to "never lift on a turn" and as a result, tried to full throttle it all the way through, causing some major traction issues. I was then informed by those more experienced then I, that in order to go fast, I had to go slow. Applied a little brake before hitting the turn, and plenty of traction all the way through.

My question is, what is the proper way to brake and throttle through a turn? Should I be applying brake before going into the turn and setting my line, as I'm setting the line, before the apex, etc? So far, what I've been doing is any time I'm in the process of turning (turning the wheel away from straight) I'm on the brake, and any time I'm straightening the car (turning the wheel to center) I'm on the gas. I feel like this isn't necessarily correct, but it seems to work. Any help is appreciated.

 

seems like you are into it so i suggest a little reading....

I would start with

speed secrets by ross bentley

or check out turnfast.com

 

First 'Never lift' is a matter of degree. Second, do not push your car based on Internet advice. You are a serious candidate for DE sessions.

Good reading (that does not substitute DE) is Vic Elford's High Performance Driving Handbook.

 

I have Vic Elford's book and I think it's pretty good. However, it is filled with a lot of personal racing stories and experiences as well as some solid driving tips and principles.

The book that I found the MOST helpful in understanding track theory is the Skip Barber manual; "Going Faster"

http://www.amazon.com/Going-Faster-M.../dp/0837602270


camhabib, the reason people are suggesting reading and educating yourself to some track theory is because in tracking, there are few absolutes. It's a combination of braking before the turn, sometimes braking through the turn lightly for balance reasons( trail braking), sometimes you DO lift in the turn in order to rotate the rear of your car around (throttle lift).

There are several more variations on this theme. Therefore, do some reading and then try to apply what you read on your next DE. I can personally say that reading the the book "Going Faster" shaved a few seconds of my lap times just by getting me to think differently about the way I approach each corner.

In general though, try to get as much braking as you can get while still in a straight line, get your car "set" or "balanced" before making your turn in, don't snap off the brakes, but rather ease off the brakes and onto the throttle to give a little maintenence gas through the apex, and then feed the the throttle smoothly and power out of the corner without breaking traction if you can.



Dan

 

I'm planning on participating in a few DE's coming up, as I know full well I'm in need of some more experience. It helps to know what to be working on tho, and what to and not to be doing. I'll be picking up some of the books recommended here and start reading up.

 

+1, Ross is a great guy, and driver. His books are easy reads and you will learn a lot from just a few short hours of reading.

 

You've been given some excellent advice about what to read and about signing up for DE's. Once you learn where the entry, apex, and exit of any given turn is, you will have the very rudiments under your belt. From there, you can learn where and when to brake and where and when to get back on the throttle. It's not the same for every turn.
Mr. B

 

excellent info in this thread...I also enjoyed "going faster".

Which gets more technical but I recommend it strongly after getting thru "speed secrets"

 

just ordered speed secrets and going faster. i had skipped thru the going faster book from a neighbor but need to read it in full

 

Dude. "never lift on a turn" doesn't mean FULL throttle through the turn! You're going to seriously injure yourself. Practice. Go slower and play with lines.

Use logic. i.e "If I suddenly lift in a corner the suspension will become upset and can lose traction if I'm driving near the limits" or "If I floor it in a corner I'm going to drive off the road and crash, or spin the car out and crash"

And yes, you do most of your braking before turn-in. There is only a certain level of traction that your tires can give. Braking and steering at the same time with the same two tires is going to overwhelm those limits.

You need to read more from one professional source and not from the introwebs Also go to a local track for a day, don't worry about going as fast as anyone else. Enjoy and learn your car!

 

I should make a correction here. When I said "full throttle" I didn't literally mean throttle to the floor wide open through the turn. What I meant was, coming from a mid engine car, I am used to being able to apply a little power and get the car to somewhat slide through a turn. Not the case in the rear engine 911, which I quickly learned. All of this was done in a controlled manor on a autocross course, I didn't go find a random onramp and go to town on it.

I do appreciate all of the help tho. Orders have been placed for those books and, combined with some track and additional autocross days, I hope to make some large improvements.

 

Excellent! You're on your way to becoming an even better driver.

 

Camhabib, PLEASE go to a DE. We can not tell you because it all depends on the turn. Go to a DE and start learning with your instructor. I also HIGLY suggest the Porsche Driving School at Barber Motorsports Park in Birmingham, AL. Porsche has the best program going...do that and do DE's and you will learn.

 

I have been recreating a situation in my mind (many times over) regarding an incident of recent. Maybe somebody can shed some light on how you approach a two lane wide LH hairpin going up a steep hill with negative road camber (inside very steep). I discovered under-steer in a big way. I am accrediting the mishap to sand on the road (and a tad too much speed). I approached the inside of the hairpin traveling from the outer lane. But was probably too heavy on the brakes. Where is over steer when you need it? I think the rears were too efficient and the fronts tyres didn't bite. Eventually the rears broke loose. The car slid sideways....ouch. Experience costs. Car is fine with minor bruising but I am very reflective these days. Clearly the ABS/PASM computer would struggle to find a solution for sideways skidding. It felt like complete brake lock up. I am beginning to think that under-steer is a major 4S draw back, but that's another topic for discussion.