997 2005-2012 911 C2, C2S, C4, C4S, GTS, Targa and Cabriolet Model Discussion.

997 Longevity

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  #16  
Old 10-24-2009, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by J.Seven
I donīt want to scare you, but these M96 engines are not trust worthy. Soot was another issue on 05 engines.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...w-engines.html

There are people who are running their cars without even knowing they had a replacement engine (second hand cars)
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-forum/414033-replacement-engine.html

You can get any kind of problems with this engine... loose bolt and you get a new engine too
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...ew-engine.html

One minute search on any online for sale cars and bang, there you go, many 997 with new engine
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/sh...n&pageNumber=1
OK, there was a thread a few years back where someone said they had sooty exhaust as well as 3 others that were known. We've also seen several 997.2 threads suggesting the same issue yet no concern from what I've seen on the part of PCNA.

The second link was somebody that bought a car and some service guy said it may have a replacement engine. There was nothing to confirm whether or not that was the case-everybody who seemed to know how the reman engine is marked told what the marking was and the engine didn't have those markings. The service champ suggested that it was because of cosmoline on the bottom of the motor-that is a common application for cars shipping over seas.

The third link seems like a freak deal, first I've heard of it and was an infant mortality issue that was covered under warranty and no reports of a failure caused for high mileage. Probably an improperly installed bolt or poor quality part from the start.

The fourth link is a car for sale in Germany. OK?

Thanks for doing the homework, I feel much better that my car will be going strong for thousands and thousands of more miles. Besides, if it craps out it isn't like you need to go spend $100K on a new car. For $15K +/- you can get a brand new motor and run another 1-2 hundred thousand miles.
 
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MLindgren
OK, there was a thread a few years back where someone said they had sooty exhaust as well as 3 others that were known. We've also seen several 997.2 threads suggesting the same issue yet no concern from what I've seen on the part of PCNA.

The second link was somebody that bought a car and some service guy said it may have a replacement engine. There was nothing to confirm whether or not that was the case-everybody who seemed to know how the reman engine is marked told what the marking was and the engine didn't have those markings. The service champ suggested that it was because of cosmoline on the bottom of the motor-that is a common application for cars shipping over seas.

The third link seems like a freak deal, first I've heard of it and was an infant mortality issue that was covered under warranty and no reports of a failure caused for high mileage. Probably an improperly installed bolt or poor quality part from the start.

The fourth link is a car for sale in Germany. OK?

Thanks for doing the homework, I feel much better that my car will be going strong for thousands and thousands of more miles. Besides, if it craps out it isn't like you need to go spend $100K on a new car. For $15K +/- you can get a brand new motor and run another 1-2 hundred thousand miles.

Glad youīre happy with your ride, this is the most important, to be happy with what we get, and itīs not your fault you get to those conclusions, I understand. Peace
 
  #18  
Old 10-24-2009, 06:39 PM
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It's upsetting hearing about engines going out at 40k miles, 60k miles. I'm have an early 05' with 38k miles and seeing all these instances is making me think of getting out of this car and into a 996tt before my engine goes out and i'm out $15k-$20k just to keep the dang thing running.
 
  #19  
Old 10-24-2009, 09:54 PM
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Some of you guys are too funny. You want to know a secret? All models/years have issues. If it's not the engine, then it's the gear box, or something else. Just drive the car, and drive it well...don't let it just sit there and collect dust, because if it’s going to happen to you, it will.

The forums will inherently magnify the issues, because not many would just post a thread saying, "60k miles, and it's still going strong!" The fact is if you do enough reading on these online sites, it would scare you to stay away from just about every single car out there...because that's what happens in these sites...the OCD owners get on and look for issues on their cars. Do a search on a Ferrari, Aston, Lotus, Corvette, BMW forum. However, what's funny is that you'd find the exact same things from a Honda, Lexus, Nissan forums. Like I said, all makes and models have their own issues. It’s a question of to what degree?

If parts crap out, then fix it. Once you accept the fact that you're not driving an everyday appliance, you'd be wise to set money aside for maintenance and upkeep. All 911's were designed to incorporate some of the latest tech of its time. That simple fact will guarantee that you'll have a higher cost of ownership per mile compared to a vanilla Toyota Corolla.

Let's take the 997.2 for example. Who knows the reliability of its major components over time? DFI engine, PDK...it all translates to more new/complex/expensive parts to fix. And if trending history is any indication, Porsche will most definitely have engineered some issues in.

Which just reminded me…a recent Excellence article stated the 997 GT3’s vaunted GT1 block with having a high percentage of RMS problems. This is the article that recommended the 996 GT3 over the 997 version, due partly to the its lack of RMS sightings…Too funny…
 
  #20  
Old 10-26-2009, 11:39 AM
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This is some interesting stuff. However as a gauge of reliability I had a 1997 brand new Chevy Cavalier and the Quad 4 engine wouldn't start on an 80-degree day in perfect weather. And the car had about 5000 miles on it.

I can definitively state that every German car I've owned (1986 Quantum w/ Audi 5-cyl, BMW 323, BMW M Roadster, Porsche Cayenne, and now a 2008 997) has had extremely good mechanical reliability, which is why I don't change from German cars. The most robust design was probably the Cayenne. When I traded it in at 60,000 miles it ran EXACTLY as new. However I let my cars sufficiently warm up before "getting on them", which I feel is very important.
 
  #21  
Old 10-26-2009, 12:04 PM
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I think the issue of engine malfunction is vastly overstated and perpetuated by members of forums like this.

The only fact in this case is that there are far too few observations to make a statistically valid argument. Many posts have between 5 to 7 unique posters making outrageous claims - and we've got to be wary.

In response, I had started an oil consumption poll on rennlist a while back. With 207 respondents, I don't know of a more robust survey available today. And the results are startling - roughly 3.4% reported significantly high (1qt/500 miles or more) oil usage requirements. See the survey here: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...sage-poll.html

In my case, the high oil consumption I had witnessed took place until about 10,000 miles. Since that time, it has leveled off remarkably, and with 17,000 miles on the clock, I use about 1 quart every 3,000 miles.

Many agree that the M96/97 is not nearly as robust as it should be. The IMS design was engineered originally with weak bearings and bolts, and a failure of the bolt causes extreme failure. Porsche, without admitting fault, has engineered substantially stronger bolts and bearings into the design. I would add, there are many, many RMS replacements that have been documented.

Jake Raby is one of the few mechanics that has a preventative fix for the IMS issue, and his posts in 986forum are incredibly insightful based on real-world experience in tearing down M96/97 motors with all a variety of mileage levels.

Feel free to drive your car to 100k miles plus and not to worry. One forum I participate in has hundreds of passionate Boxster owners - and at least 10% of them have 100k miles or more on their cars.
 

Last edited by Gundo; 10-26-2009 at 12:14 PM. Reason: t
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