I've been looking at 2010 inventory lists and notice a significant number of base 997 cars . It's hard to say but compared to last year I am wondering if there's more of them built proportionally to the 997S . I also notice that quite a few are manual cars , no chrono , standard leather , manual seats , yet have bose. ipod, bluetooth and are priced in the 80's unlike a 997S loaded up priced over 100 (with PDK , chrono , etc) .

Is this presence of the base 997 moderately priced a good thing ? Will it attract the car shopper who falls in love with the 997S but sees a 15-20K savings if he compromises on expense ?

I think its a great strategy price point . I just wonder how well it will do.
Any thoughts ?

 

Dealer inventory tends to be all the same - black/gray with black/gray base interiors, and the pricey doodads (Bose, bluetooth, iPod). They do not appeal to the 911 fan at heart. I agree that Carreras will sell better than the S.

 

So a 911 fan is not someone who drives a porsche and loves it, rather someone who drives the RIGHT porsche and loves it? The statement that dealer inventory doesn't appeal to the 911 fan at heart sounds a little elitist, perhaps not what you intended.

Now, to the point, I think the strange options combinations I saw both on 2009s and on the 2010s I've looked through while looking over dealer websites as I contemplate trading up for a faster variant may be a sales deterrent for porsche.

Using myself, a recent 3.6L engine car buyer, as an example, I think the idea that I could spend 80 grand on a sports car and miss out on the "sport" button is a bad one. I'm pretty compulsive about my driving position sweet spot and I like the tweakability of power seats - again I doubt most people will want to spend 80K for hand crank seats, especially the value driven customer ("value") looking at the lightly optioned base carrera - I mean, there are other cars that go faster in pretty much every way than a base carrera that cost about the same money and have more standard features.

I think at least one of them is ugly as sin, but that is another conversation....

I think the car should come with the sport bit, power seats, a nice stereo with an ipod connector, and bluetooth standard. I would happily skip the sunroof, pay extra for full leather, pasm, and all the other stuff including nav or a touch screen or anything like that. I guess power windows are nice, but I'd buy those. I think a sports car should come with the equipment that will help me drive like a maniac with the stereo up and answer a phone call from my wife without killing myself in the process.

Unless, of course there is a low flying pelican nearby.

 

Kungfufishing -- I realize that you were responding to Adias .

Before the thread goes way off the topic of the pricing strategy I'll dip my toes and say that back in the days when the base car was the ONLY 911 normally aspirated engine -- it presented itself very nicely . The base and S model tiers actually came from the success of the Boxster and was introduced in 2005 . In recent times with the options creating such a price gap I wish that porsche would build one car and price it in between . It woiuld eliminate the large discounts that we saw on the S cars and it might also bring Porsche back to an earlier root . Once upon a time Porsche built the best car they could and offered it as the 911 . The sales and marketing strategy of the two tiers base and S may have sold units but the industry is changing .I believe that most folks buying 911 cars in the current economy really love the car but they are also evaluating their spending .

 

I completely agree, especially with the last statement. It was hard to know that one the one hand, we could afford a faster porsche than the one we were buying, but with the way the economy had been going it wouldnt be wise to sink too much more into car debt. I think I do see a point adias is making that porsche is leaving off the stuff that might be useful or unique for driving and instead making sort of poseurboxes with basic seats and colors that cater more to the bourgeois needs for ipods and phones etc. Still, the suspension, engine, brakes, transmission are all right there.

What do you think Porsche's point is, in optioning cars the way they do? A good example, there are 2 C4S cars at my dealer right now. No sport. no power seats. Both do have PDK. No heated seats. Bose, nav, bluetooth, ipod, all in. on the lot for at least two months now.

 

In the late 60s and 70s Porsche did offer a 911L(uxury) and 911S and then the 911T,E,and S. These latter models had identical displacement engines but w/ different states of tune. The trim levels were also different.

 

I think it makes sense - obviously. Seriously, my car was a well-optioned base car - although it does have SC, an item my sales guy advised me was important and I think he was right.

As a newbie buyer, I simply wanted a 911. Fulfilling a dream. But I had also been on a long long car shopping hunt - all over the map - and I had various goals:

1 - wanted a car I could possibly live with for more than my typical 3-4 years.
2 - wanted to hedge on better fuel economy in case gas heads back over $4, which in the next several years will probably happen. Don't want to be stuck trying to sell a gas guzzler at that point.
3 - after owning some of the fastest street cars for the past 10 years, I realized that the madness has to stop - or slow down. There's just no point in the power of some of the top end cars made today. The silliness of the HP races are over-the-top. I'm not tracking my cars anymore and even if I were, most of my tracking experience tells me that, for the events I did, handling is more important than massive power that never/rarely gets used.
So my decision was to not got for the V8s or any of that.

None of that was pointing me toward a 911 - I wasn't even thinking about one - didn't want to pay that much for a car and really was looking for something more practical.

But in my shopping, I was not finding anything inspiring to buy and randomly got re-reminded of my 911 itch and decided, what the heck, it doesn't hurt to look.

So, yes price of the base model was definitely a factor, but also, for me, it seemed like plenty of car. And it is. It is fast, nimble, and a blast to drive.

As for being a 911 fan, well I am. But I am not one-dimensional. I am also a huge music fan. I ran a recording studio for the past 10 years. A decent stereo and a way to have access to loads of music is important to me...and available in a 911, so why not? Doesn't make the car any less of a driving machine to have it. I am also a technology geek having spent 15 years working in the computer industry. So gadgets are not only important to me, they are a philosophy - hence PDK; not because I don't like MTs or cannot drive one, I'm just curious - want to experience what is up with new technology.

There's my 911, meeting a lot of diverse goals, and very much my kind of car:

- I think I can love it for more than 4 years - I hope, but if not, then I'll know.
- strangely, and unexpectedly, it gets better gas mileage than most cars.
- it is not the fastest car, not the fastest 911, but plenty fast enough for my enjoyment - and nearly the same power as last year's "S" (there's that crazy HP race again).
- it has an OK stereo, not the best, but not terrible and the iPod works well and BONUS: DVD Audio 5.1 MLP playback that actually does sound terrific! Just got the new(new as new DVDA 5.1 remix) King Crimson RED in DVDA (and they have more!!!).
- plenty of cool tech stuff - NAV with XM traffic, well-implemented hands free BT phone support. PDK, DFI. Loads of cool **** than can break
- Oh, and I have to have a sunroof if not a cab, and I love the open feeling of this car with the huge windshield, rear glass, and panorama - opening the top makes it that much better. My dogs, car riding experts they are, agree.

So do base cars make sense? I think absolutely they do. And as others have said in the past, calling any model Porsche a "base" car is an oxymoron at best.

 

The S does actually outsell the Carrera in all variants (coupe, convertible and AWD)

And stevepow - that's a great post.

 

Call it elitist if you want, if elitist means 911 fans who prefer a light unencumbered sports car and not a GT. Who needs Bose, motorized seats and NAV to enjoy a sports car on a fast twisty mountain road? My comment was that dealers cars always have those options and color-wise they are black or gray (this has been told to me by several salesmen). And you are correct, many dealers cars do not have SC. Remember that a large majority of 911 buyers these days have no clue what a 997 is or a flat 6 or LSD - they just want to be seen in a Porsche.

Re the thread topic... I think that the Carrera (base) is a great car. Actually in the 997.1 series the 3.6l engine was a smoother sweeter engine. However, PAG always had over the years dual models. In the early 70s there was a 911 and a 911S.

 

LSD - ah, the memories of heading off to see the Dead - in my "base" 325e BMW with limited slip, I mean. What?

 

You got it. LSD as in (mechanical) Limited Slip Differential.

 

Well, Adias, I have to say that in reading other posts I tend to agree with you most of the time.

I read your post as "I'm above bourgeois dealer lot inventory" when I think what you actually meant was that dealer lot inventory has some proportion of cars aimed at people who functionally want a lexus or bmw with a porsche body kit. I agree.

With the exception of a brief stint in a 335i, I've never driven anything but sports cars. I learned to drive on an mgb, a triumph, and another mgb (all 1971-1972 models, pre rubber bumper) in various degrees of restoration, so I certainly understand lightness and handling. Those things are almost horsepower free, but they are well balanced and can take apart a curvy road and hold lots of speed into a corner - which is good, because you'd never speed up again... I'm only mentioning this to explain that I appreciate low amenities vehicles that like to handle and have great road feel.

I had a similar experience to Steve when I bought my 997.2 C4 - even if I had not wanted the all wheel drive for my DD it would have been a tough call in choosing between the S and non S, simply because the base car is plenty fast.

 

+1 on the DVD 5.1, Bono is now my passenger...

This is my 1st 911. IMHO the feel of the car, not the power, defines it's character and sets it apart. Its the exact opposite of a corvette.

The base 997.2 seems closer to its S sibling than the 997.1 versions. Particularly since they upgraded the brakes on the base car.

I have had plenty of seat time in a friend's bone stock 07' 997S 6 speed and it doesn't feel any faster or better sorted than my 09' 3.6 6 speed. In fact, changes to the front of the new car make it feel less jumpy.

It seems that driving this car well will be about learning how to use more of the existing power, handling and brakes. I used every drop my BMW 550i sport had to offer. It was fast as hell, but the speed and performance was too easy to access. Made the car boring quickly, and dangerous as it masked speed very well. I hope I don't get tomatoed for this, but I actually drive the 911 slower than I did the 550 around town. My use of speed is more deliberate in this car.

BTW, my steering wheel is supposed to be in next week...fingers crossed.

Regards,
David

 

It worked on me! And quite well, I must say. Instead of coming into the Porsche game looking at a new 'S' model and then having to go to a lower priced vehicle, I was able to move up to a new base Carrera at a higher price point than the used market that I was looking at. Had the base Carrera been priced any higher then I would most likely be in a used car right now. And, not necessarily a Porsche. Perfect. Check the box labeled Childhood dream. Done. The car is outfitted just as I need a daily driver to be (because this car will not be allowed to simply sit in a garage and look pretty, I need it everyday) and yet it still retains what I expect from a Porsche 911. Besides, ***puts flamesuit on*** the cost comparison at the time of purachse for me between an 'S' and the base model just wasn't worth it. Meh. Not having the extra HP and other bits didn't bother me in the least. When I can, I'll get that extra HP, suspension tuning and aural pleasure elsewhere. (see next paragraph!)

In terms of what a true 911 is supposed to be or what a true 911 owner should be interested in is certainly debatable. However, the base Carrera with all the it-just-adds-weight-and-does-nothing-to-improve-performance options installed allowed me to get my foot in the door with a car that I can use everyday and take to the track when I can. Do I have a plan to move up to the track ready and "driver's" 911 the GT3? Absolutely! Does this optioned out, lower priced daily use base model get me to my GT3 goal? Yes it does. Here's how.

If my brand new $80k (that's a big number in my household) 911 came without even the most basic of features or creature comforts that my wife has in her '04 Outback ones that she's used to, she'd have never gone for it. For her, like many others, as price increases the amount of options stuffed in your car should be commensurate. And that's what matters most. For her, for them, driving experience just ain't on the list. This base model 911 is the right 911 to make her feel comfortable with the purchase (it has all the expected goodies) AND get acquainted with why I place a premium on the driving experience of a 911. A GT3 is now something she understands. It's more of the driving and less of the options. Perfect. So, this base car is perfect for my evil plan...

Just my $.02

Funny!

 

In my case, I do not want or need another "luxury car".
Heck, if Porsche offered manual roll down windows, I would check that box right away!

Wish build:
2011 911S
6-speed Manual
LSD
Manual roll down windows
Manual doorlocks
Sans moonroof
No tech gadgets, cupholders or other distractions...