The 11 is flawed because it's an all-in-the-rear design? Please... Who says that and rather see it mid-engine is simply a poseur. There's no other way to say it.

Those guys who think the 911 is hard to drive (fast) and undesteers have no clue how to drive it. How sad. I new that the current 911 crowd had a bunch of poseurs... I am just surprised how many they are.

 

Is this a .2 feature? My .1 targa doesn't beep, it just flashes the parking lights twice for lock and once for unlock.

Regardless, I think this is programmable by your dealer.

 

Really? I bought the C2S because I always wanted a 911. I was seriously considering a Cayman S but I don't like the looks - inside or out.

If Porsche made a Cayman RS I would have probably gone with that instead.

I don't think the 997 is hard to drive fast but I do think that it is pushy at the track and it sucks that you have to buy GT3 control arms to get a range of camber adjustment that is necessary for more neutral handling than the factory dialed in.

It's even kind of fun hanging the tail out on corner exit but not necessarily the fast way around the track. In the 997 it is downright easy compared to a 911SC or 964 or even 993.

I'm not the greatest driver out there but I have won a couple of local auto-x season championships and the only SCCA Club Trial I entered so I do have a little bit of experience at performance driving.

If your definition of poser is one who buys a 911 in spite of the rear engine layout and not because of it - I guess I'm a poser

I just spent a little time behind the wheel of my buddy's 997.1 GT3 RS. Now *that* is the way all 911s should be - it was awesome!

It makes me want to sell the C2S and trade up because it is a completely different experience.

My definition of a 911 poser was my old boss. He bought a new base C2 with tip and asked chicks in bars if they wanted a ride in his "Porsh"

On a serious note - are you telling me that you wouldn't give up the joke of a back seat in the 911 for a mid engined design? You might view those of us who would like a mid engined 911 as posers but I would would view you as being something of a luddite to keep the 911 rear engined in perpetuity.

 

Can you tell me what you think these "new 911 buyers" are posing to be?

 

911 core fans they are not.

 

When I think of 911 core I think of air cooled, pedals hinged at the bottom, upright windscreen, manual transmission and rear engine. If that definition is close most of the guys stayed back in the 993 or earlier version. The hard core track guys are in GT3 cars.

I for one have always loved the 911 styling but never considered it a car comfortable enough to drive everyday and still perform very well on the occasion it get to the track until the 997 came along. So I guess I'm posing to be someone who appreciates refinement/quality in a car that handles very well and is enjoyable to drive?

 

Does that apply to everyone who buys a PDK? ( I don't think so but following your logic it should.)

Or buyers who live to keep there cars pristine. ( I mean there meant to be driven like sports cars so I guess your a poser if every rock chip bothers you?)

I have the most stripped down 911 you can buy because I want to drive it hard and didn't want to pay more for a car I was going to track heavily.

But I don't think any less of people who want a bang for the buck or others options. Why not try to imrpove the brand.

You say u see allot of posers here. I see a lot of guys annoyed that the brand is not as special as they believe (IMO wrongly) it should be. Theres room for all types of owners.

 

You just distort what core is. Core is all-in-the-rear (not a mid-engined 911) and light. PDK is core and a leather interior is core. Larger doors, seats, etc. is certainly not core.

I think that many who want easier ingress/egress and larger rear seats should trade for a Panamera, which is a great car. They might like it.

 

I distort nothing. And neither do others. Owners can define core as they see it.

PDK is not core to many porsche enthusiasts. But because u say it is..it is?

And mid engine...I've seen some drivers in caymans run with the best in the advanced groups in PCA DE's. Sure not a 911 ( i have both platforms and much prefer the 911) but they perform well. Imagine 380 HP in one.

You take the wants of others too close to heart. What they want doesn't lessen the thrill of your car.

Anyway ....the panamera should lessen your fears.

 

Excuse me but who made you the arbiter of what defines "core"?

Talk about your slippery slope...

Were the first buyers of the coil spring 911s posers?

How about water cooling?

For some reason PDK gets your seal of approval (presumably for better performance) but a mid engined 911 would be for posers?

Does that make CGT owners posers?

 

Please take this for what it's worth, remembering this is our first Porsche, though I've driven them now and then in years past.

The passenger window on our 997.2 goes up automatically, but only after a slightly extended holding of the button. Maybe one second I'd say. This gives time for someone to say "Hey!" or just move their arm/neck/random appendage. If you let go in that first "Hey" interval, it stops going up.

Don't know what the change might be in the sunroof function, since we never owned a 996, but ours takes only a single push of the button unless you choose to hold it so you can stop at something other than the computer chosen limit. (Computer limit varies I think. Not really sure. Something in the owner's manual about it finding the optimum position to minimize wind noise, but I haven't experimented yet. Too cold out right now and we just bought the car a week ago.) The owner's manual seems to imply that both the windows and the sunroof have a pressure sensor that will stop the motion if excessive resistance is felt, as for example while truncating your random appendage.

I don't think a visible gate has anything to do with missing shifts. I've seen people do it with cars that have visible gates and those that don't. In fact, Ferraris are the most famous for a visible gate and they are notorious for missing shifts when you're rushed.

So far, I find it fairly easy to hit third when I want first, but that's probably just a subconscious reaction to having reverse top left next to first, instead of bottom right next to sixth, which is the pattern I've used more. Not terribly important, except possibly in an autocross. Even on a real race track, I can't see needing first gear in a hurry, and certainly not on the road. (I may be wrong, but so far it feels like first wouldn't be useful anywhere but leaving the pits. Even the hairpin at Sears Point wouldn't be slow enough to get under second would it?)

My personal opinion is that hitting third when upshifting to fifth would take a serious case of brain fade. Not that it can't happen, but I think I'd have to be distracted and suffer a case of procedural inversion, as happens near the end of a race sometimes. That is, I can't see hitting third unless I let my subconscious wander off on its own and it was intentionally aiming for third, having grabbed the subroutine for turn four when we were supposed to be entering turn six. That sort of thing can happen in any car, from a formula car to a Pontiac. With or without a visible gate.

What I mean is that the gates in our 997.2 aren't visible, but they are very well defined by the geometry of the shifter. Hard to see missing the gear you're aiming for. At least it will be once I convince my subconscious that top left corner isn't going to grab reverse inadvertently.

Incidentally, I did once grab first instead of third coming onto a freeway on a 270-degree curved on-ramp. A very tall passenger braced himself by pushing a big knee over onto the console -- right over the shift area. My hand was moved over by just that much as I reached for third. This was in a Legend some years ago, when they first came out, and all that happened was I immediately disengaged the clutch again. (And grabbed third very forcefully, pushing away that damned knee, since a cement truck was gaining on us, coming down a hill at 75 or so.) Even if you make that mistake, the engine has no time to over-rev unless the driver just freezes on realizing what's just happened. The reasonable reaction is to do what I did: Curse vilely, while disengaging the clutch. The whole process couldn't have taken half a second. Way too short for the clutch to quit slipping (which it will do) and bring the engine up to an overrev condition.

These aren't formula cars. Unless you have a full race model, the flywheel has enough mass -- intentionally -- that it prevents the engine changing rpm that much in the few hundred milliseconds that it takes a decent driver to correct the situation. Puts a hell of a jolt on the driveline though, so I can't recommend it. I'm just saying the engine isn't likely to be what you damage.

Of course, if we postulate a driver who is unable to tell the difference between third and fifth until the engine complains by exploding... well, all bets are off.

 

If you are interested in "posing," a Porsche wouldn't be a good choice - they are about as common as a Camry in DFW. As a new Porsche owner, I have been educated though on this thread...note to self for my Monday task list:

1. Submit app for new Poser vanity plate: iamnude

 

Forgive a new owner asking silly questions, but isn't that what the sport exhaust option is for? People who want a more aggressive sound?

 

The metal part of the key doesnt fold...its sticks out too much

 

It may sound presumptuous in a new Porsche owner, but I'm an old-time sports car owner, so I'll presume: Adias is completely right. The option list can bewilder a new buyer, but the car is first and foremost a sports car. To hell with marketing types who abuse the language. What "sports car" means is that those who want to can take the car to a track and it won't embarrass itself. That in turn means that every effort must be made to keep the basic car as light as possible. Nothing looks sillier than people who arrive at a track and start stripping their car, throwing out rear seats, spare tires, and even carpets in one memorable case.

The 911 is a sports car. Even full options only add about 200 lbs to the coupe and someone who tracks regularly won't buy those. What he'll get will be a car with the money put into performance features -- not full leather and other ways to add weight.

I admit, I want those things. I'm an old man now and appreciate my comfort, but that's the difference between a sports car and a pure race car. I can have my comfort with a little attention to the option list, and someone who prefers sport can configure the car to be competitive on track. I get the sports car feel on public roads -- with lumbar support -- and he gets near-race-car performance on tracks.

And it's strictly personal preference, but just for the record, I find cars that hoot when I lock them to be obnoxious. The subtle light flashes of our S are just fine by me. Furthermore, I can't get excited about tire wear. Buy a set of Winstons guaranteed for 50,000 miles -- and a Ford Consort to fit them -- if you're that worried about using rubber. Forgive my bluntness, but that's where the grip comes from after all. Besides, the wear that people are complaining of here is about twice the mileage we got on our NSX. I'm rather looking forward to a set of Michelins lasting 12,000 miles.

So far, my only dislike... well, it couldn't be a long list or we wouldn't have bought the car. In this price range, I expect to be satisfied from the first day. My only dislike so far is the distortion when using the bluetooth phone. Can't think of anything else, and for a sports car, that a pretty unimportant thing to find wrong.

Very nice car. Everything we expected in a Porsche. Or any sports car.