My C4 will be Feb built so I'm expecting delivery March or April.

 

Porsche is generally more conservative with 0-60 on the manual transmission cars because it is without abusing the car ("dumping or dropping" the clutch). The car magazines do dump the clutch and can shave about 0.5 sec. off the time. So the 0-60 time for the 997.1S should be closer to 4.0 sec. I am sure that launch control for the 997 PDK is not as damaging as dumping the clutch but I am also convinced it significantly increases wear. This is why C&D uses the "street start" ( rolling in first gear with the clutch out and then flooring it in their tests also. I would say that in the end the cars have similar performance and would make my decsion based on other items.....condition, auto vs. manual, IMS vs. HPFP and DI issues.......

 

997.2 for sure, much better and much faster car... sports chrono i would no worry about for if you've driven the car with its almost superfluous.. and does not change the speed of the car and you'll never use launch control unless your showing off to friends.

 

I'm not a fan of the PDK (gasp) so for me that is an easy choice, the 997.1.

A tougher decision would be the 997.1 C2s vs the 997.2 C2, both manual.

 

Personally, I prefer a manual transmission. I'm willing to sacrifice some hp gains for that experience. I have an Audi with the flappy paddles and although it's not PDK... it is nice for a DD option. But my 997 is just a more involved full body experience and that's the appeal for me.

 

997.2 They're generally equal in speed/power. But the 09's electronics are soooo much better.

 

I just had to chime in hear because I've read so much about the relative 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. For the same money, do you choose the '07 C2S or the '09 C2?

Well, the '09 C2 is an $80k car. The C2S was a $100k car. The percentage depreciation on the '09 will be a lot more than the '07-'08. Effectively, you will get more car for less money in the C2S. Naturally, with the '09 you get more technology, new engine, etc. but all of that COSTS money. And, as everyone has pointed out, the cars are very close in performance. Don't neglect to factor in depreciation. Simply put, the '09 will cost you more than the older car. The peace of mind of the warranty will not likely save you money because the repair costs for both cars will probably be pretty close. Just my 2c and a different perspective.

 

+1 on that. I test drove several different types of Porsches and model years before I ended up knowing what I really wanted. Specs and performance figures are just one dimension to the overall picture.

 

I haven't driven a 997.2 but I don't think it's a faster car, in practice. DFI brings additional power, but most of it above 5.5k rpm. Besides, the new torque curve is concave between 2k and 4k, (where most of us spend 80% of our time), in exchange for a turbo-like flat curve above that level (while 997.1 had a relative "hole" before 2k, then brutally climbed up (less on S cars) to 3.8k rpm before starting a typical slow decline til 6k. In an early test of 997.2 against 997.1 (I think C2S) of a European magazine, a 997.1 came surprinsingly slightly ahead of a 997.2 until both cars were above 90mph.
DFI undeniably brings more power and torque, while reducing consumption as previously seen on BMWs, MBs, Audis. But it makes the engine more "electric", less brutal at low rev, better spreading power to higher rev levels. It's fine and probably better this way but don't go imagine you'll have a significantly different car. Never forget that 0-60s are measured through launch control, in ideal conditions, tank almost empty and skinny pilots. Max power is taken on unmounted engines pushed at revs levels most mortals will seldom experience.

Now, I know, my car is an 08. Go ahead, throw the stones.

 

I saw that video, I saw a 12.0 in 400m which isn't quite 1/4 mile. I reserve my judgement until I see some tests done state side on a actual 1/4 mile run. The guy that ran the 12.0's is a die hard drag racer who coaxed a 12.0 @121 out of a 2010 GT500 with the stock crapyears on the car.

11.7's is a new 435hp GT3 territory, itmay be able to run it but until I see something state side I'm not quoting that number.

Dave

 

Depends on what he wants to do with the car. As an everyday car the 09 is much easier to live with, but there are some great deals about on 2nd hand .1 models. If he's talking 09 C2 then I'd guess he's talking a late .1 C2S anyway.

Bottom line though for me is that if you're choosing between a .1 C2S and a .2 C2 then go the .2 - as you say the power difference is minimal. All you're really missing from the S is PASM and the bigger brakes. The non-PASM suspension is fine, and the base brakes more than adequate for most people.

Hope that helps.

 

997.2 with PDK is a monster! It is only 10 HP short of the previous 997.1 S
PDK vs Manual really comes down to personal preference. They are two very different animals. Same for 997.1 vs 997.2
Cracks me up when people think the Carrera S is so superior to the Carrera. I'm sure GT2, GT3 and Turbo owners see both cars as base.

 

On the 997.1 maybe not necessarily so superior but, when you consider all the standard options on the Carrera S that are extra cost items for the Carrera, if you can stretch it, is a nicer proposition than specifying a base Carrera similarly.

The Carrera S's engine has 2 oil pre-separators which then go to the crankcase mounted main separator and then to the crankcase. It also has a larger oil/water intercooler but it is still a development of the 3.6 engine even though about 70% of components aren't interchangeable.

The Carrera S has a self adjusting clutch even though the manual transmissions on both Carrera and Carrera S are the same.

The Carrera S has a wider front track and the rear track was increased only 11 mm instead of the 29 mm rear track of the base Carrera because the wider rims of the wheels with greater rim offset.

In all, it is not that the Carrera S is so superior to a base Carrera (we're talking about the 997.1 version) but, when all the differences, however small they may be, as well as all the extra cost options which are standard on a Carrera S, it makes it the superior choice from a buyer's perspective if such buyer can stretch his/her budget.

And, as far as a GT3, GT2 or Turbo buyer thinking that a Carrera or a Carrera S is base, he/she better not think of it in financial terms as my car was so highly optioned (yes, I know money was wasted here) that it cost me more than a 997.1 GT3 would have.

 

Dont forget to check the LSD option...makes up for HP lost to the S with great acceleration out of curves.....

 

All the arguments about depreciation and a few tenths here and there don't matter in the long run. Tell your friend to do as these last two comments suggest: drive them both. And more examples if time permits.

After driving Porsches occasionally for forty years we finally decided to buy one and I was shocked how much different we felt about the several different models we drove. Borrowing, you're mostly making sure you don't bend somebody's baby, or miss a shift, God forbid. When you're thinking about buying, it's different. You grow six more ears and your butt becomes hypersensitive to the car's response over every bump and every change of pavement.

For us, it came down to a 997, but the most recent of the books I bought for research before we went out shopping had been published before the dot two came out. We drove a 911S in dot one and were somehow disappointed. This is a matter of taste remember, and very much a matter of feel. Nothing wrong with the car. Just didn't feel like us. Not like the car we wanted to take home. We'd been looking at new Audi S5's and other Porsches, but only CPO 911 models. When he saw we were leaving for an appointment with the Mercedes dealer, the sales manager offered to dig out a 2009 "with the new engine" from the back of his storage lot. That was a 997.2 of course. We were disappointed enough to be very skeptical and inclined to leave (which always helping once you start negotiating) but the important point was we just hadn't enjoyed being us in the first two 911 models we tried.

The wait was worth it. Just in the change from 997.1 to 997.2 we had a car we loved. We were alone, of course, not with a salesman and I told Cindy in the first block: "I like the feel of this one."

Just driving a car is one thing. Even on a track. Some of the most famous race cars (including one of Porsche's) have made the driver feel like the car was trying to kill them at every corner. Fast, but not without a lot of work. Not naturally fast. On the street, the difference is... well, there is rhythm to a car and to every driver. We're adaptable apes, but we fell comfortable in cars that match our rhythm. The 997.2 felt more responsive and the PASM suspension is very much worth the money, but the very important thing, the unpredictable thing, was that it had a natural rhythm that was completely different from that last 911S only half an hour earlier. The 997.1.

Tell your friend to get out there and drive these cars and don't bother doing arithmetic about depreciation. Not unless he's an accountant and gets his joy that way. Just buy the one he can afford that matches his feel for driving.

Gotta run. No time to proof. Hope I didn't commit any laughable errors in spelling.