997.1 Carrea S 3.8 vs 997.2 Carrera 3.6 PDK?
#31
12-15-2009 | 11:34 AM
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+1
IMHO the sport should be standard, the sport plus could be optional. SC makes all the difference when one wants a little more involvement
#32
12-15-2009 | 02:47 PM
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On the 997.1 maybe not necessarily so superior but, when you consider all the standard options on the Carrera S that are extra cost items for the Carrera, if you can stretch it, is a nicer proposition than specifying a base Carrera similarly.
The Carrera S's engine has 2 oil pre-separators which then go to the crankcase mounted main separator and then to the crankcase. It also has a larger oil/water intercooler but it is still a development of the 3.6 engine even though about 70% of components aren't interchangeable.
The Carrera S has a self adjusting clutch even though the manual transmissions on both Carrera and Carrera S are the same.
The Carrera S has a wider front track and the rear track was increased only 11 mm instead of the 29 mm rear track of the base Carrera because the wider rims of the wheels with greater rim offset.
In all, it is not that the Carrera S is so superior to a base Carrera (we're talking about the 997.1 version) but, when all the differences, however small they may be, as well as all the extra cost options which are standard on a Carrera S, it makes it the superior choice from a buyer's perspective if such buyer can stretch his/her budget.
And, as far as a GT3, GT2 or Turbo buyer thinking that a Carrera or a Carrera S is base, he/she better not think of it in financial terms as my car was so highly optioned (yes, I know money was wasted here) that it cost me more than a 997.1 GT3 would have.
The Carrera S's engine has 2 oil pre-separators which then go to the crankcase mounted main separator and then to the crankcase. It also has a larger oil/water intercooler but it is still a development of the 3.6 engine even though about 70% of components aren't interchangeable.
The Carrera S has a self adjusting clutch even though the manual transmissions on both Carrera and Carrera S are the same.
The Carrera S has a wider front track and the rear track was increased only 11 mm instead of the 29 mm rear track of the base Carrera because the wider rims of the wheels with greater rim offset.
In all, it is not that the Carrera S is so superior to a base Carrera (we're talking about the 997.1 version) but, when all the differences, however small they may be, as well as all the extra cost options which are standard on a Carrera S, it makes it the superior choice from a buyer's perspective if such buyer can stretch his/her budget.
And, as far as a GT3, GT2 or Turbo buyer thinking that a Carrera or a Carrera S is base, he/she better not think of it in financial terms as my car was so highly optioned (yes, I know money was wasted here) that it cost me more than a 997.1 GT3 would have.
I did think of one big negative for the 997.2
The standard brake calipers suck. Definitely go for an S model if serious track days or frequent pad changes are likely. The caliper design for the carrera does not allow drop in pad changes like the S
No aftermarket pads are available for the Carrera yet either (that I know of)
#33
12-15-2009 | 02:55 PM
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As I just changed pads on my car, what do you mean - it does not allow pads changes? You knock out one single rod in the middle, remove spring that holds pads in place and extract pads out with your fingers. No tools needed. Then put new pads in, put spring back and push rod back, and that`s all. 5 minutes process. As simple design as it can be.
#34
12-15-2009 | 04:48 PM
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I went through the same decision when getting my first 911.
I had to choose between a second hand 997.1C2S or 997.2C2.
Having a brand new car instead of a 2 year old one was definitely the major factor, as well as the PDK with Sports Chrono.
PDK is a revelation, even though my other car is a 2008 VW R32 with DSG. It shifts faster and harder than any dual-clutch auto I have driven, that includes the R-tronic in the Audi TTS and Audi R8.
It uses less fuel, has all the new interior cabin electronics as standard (In Australia, at least... has bi-xenon, park assist, sat-nav, phone-blue-tooth as standard).
Plus, re-sale value of the 997.2 will be better than a 2 year old 997.1S. Most people are now wanting to buy PDK. Our dealer in Sydney said that 90% of owners are opting for the PDK.
It's also as fast in a straight line as a 997.1C2S in manual. 4.5s 0-100 km/h with launch control.
So in the end I bought a 997.2C2 and have never regretted that decision. I only wish I had enough money to buy the 997.2C2S which is about $280,000 AUD = $254,000 USD!
H
I had to choose between a second hand 997.1C2S or 997.2C2.
Having a brand new car instead of a 2 year old one was definitely the major factor, as well as the PDK with Sports Chrono.
PDK is a revelation, even though my other car is a 2008 VW R32 with DSG. It shifts faster and harder than any dual-clutch auto I have driven, that includes the R-tronic in the Audi TTS and Audi R8.
It uses less fuel, has all the new interior cabin electronics as standard (In Australia, at least... has bi-xenon, park assist, sat-nav, phone-blue-tooth as standard).
Plus, re-sale value of the 997.2 will be better than a 2 year old 997.1S. Most people are now wanting to buy PDK. Our dealer in Sydney said that 90% of owners are opting for the PDK.
It's also as fast in a straight line as a 997.1C2S in manual. 4.5s 0-100 km/h with launch control.
So in the end I bought a 997.2C2 and have never regretted that decision. I only wish I had enough money to buy the 997.2C2S which is about $280,000 AUD = $254,000 USD!
H
#35
12-15-2009 | 05:22 PM
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For the same money I'd take the base .2 and as a daily driven the PDK would be the hands down winner for me. ( Couple of times stuck in stop and go city traffic for an hour or two in a manual makes this an easy decision.) As a weekender, I like my manual shifter. But either way the newer car would get my vote unless it was the first model year at which point I'd wait for the 2010 hoping for a few less bugs and few more free upgrades.
#36
12-15-2009 | 08:20 PM
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400m (1/4 mile) times, all done with launch control:
Carrera PDK ==> 12.179
Carrera S PDK ==> 11.772
Carrera 4 PDK ==> 12.166
Carrera 4S PDK ==> 11.833
If you want to get technical, a mile is 1,609 meters, so 400m is 9/4 = 2.25m, or 7.38 feet, short of a 1/4 mile. But who's counting ;P
The trap times for the S models are REALLY impressive for cars with "only" 385hp. This goes to show how incredibly effective PDK + launch control are together.
The new Turbo is going to be devastating with a few mods in the 1/4 mile.
Carrera PDK ==> 12.179
Carrera S PDK ==> 11.772
Carrera 4 PDK ==> 12.166
Carrera 4S PDK ==> 11.833
If you want to get technical, a mile is 1,609 meters, so 400m is 9/4 = 2.25m, or 7.38 feet, short of a 1/4 mile. But who's counting ;P
The trap times for the S models are REALLY impressive for cars with "only" 385hp. This goes to show how incredibly effective PDK + launch control are together.
The new Turbo is going to be devastating with a few mods in the 1/4 mile.
Last edited by nizzoc4s; 12-15-2009 at 08:27 PM.
#37
12-15-2009 | 08:29 PM
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Also, check out how this stock 997S PDK does against a 996 Turbo 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5BVmaU-Vvo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5BVmaU-Vvo
#39
12-17-2009 | 06:07 AM
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Saw that video clip a while ago. 997S PDK is certainly a wild package. Would be interesting to see a 997S PDK + power kit race a 997.2 GT3, in a straight line of course.
#40
12-17-2009 | 06:15 AM
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As I just changed pads on my car, what do you mean - it does not allow pads changes? You knock out one single rod in the middle, remove spring that holds pads in place and extract pads out with your fingers. No tools needed. Then put new pads in, put spring back and push rod back, and that`s all. 5 minutes process. As simple design as it can be.
They changed the design for 997.2 non S
I'm familiar with the pin design from my 2006 Boxster S.
Unfortunately the new caliper doesn't work that way
Check out the two solid bars crossing the top of the caliper.
I can't see a way to swap out pads like the S model
Last edited by type997; 12-17-2009 at 11:27 AM.
#42
12-17-2009 | 12:32 PM
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Your car must be a 997.1?
They changed the design for 997.2 non S
I'm familiar with the pin design from my 2006 Boxster S.
Unfortunately the new caliper doesn't work that way
Check out the two solid bars crossing the top of the caliper.
I can't see a way to swap out pads like the S model
They changed the design for 997.2 non S
I'm familiar with the pin design from my 2006 Boxster S.
Unfortunately the new caliper doesn't work that way
Check out the two solid bars crossing the top of the caliper.
I can't see a way to swap out pads like the S model
or may be not. difficult to see from this shot with wheel on, but obviously it is quite different from 997.1 design.
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