I apologize in advance for the long post.

In August, I took delivery of a 2009 997.2, aqua blue (I posted pictures in a previous post). I was so thrilled to finally have the car that I have been lusting after for many, many years. The first week that I had the car, it had to be towed back to the dealership and was taken out of service for a few days for a replacement fuel injector. A few weeks later, the amplifier blew, and had to be replaced. Within the first 1000 miles, I also noticed that the car seemed to be going through a lot of oil.

After at least 6 trips back to the dealership for the oil issue, when each time I was told that they were "measuring consumption", as well as dealing with a dispute resolution person in Atlanta, I got fed up and sent PCNA a final demand to fix the car in 15 days, per New Jersey lemon law. By this time, the car was going through approximately 2.5 to 3 quarts of oil every 600 miles or so.

After 15 days, I got absolutely no response. Out of courtesy, I called Atlanta to tell them that I had not received any response to my Certified letter. The response that I got was that they had a "temp" opening their mail, and apparently my Certified letter was lost (although I had a return receipt).

They asked me to give them another 2 weeks to get back to me. Today, after no response for three weeks, I sent another email to Atlanta that I was turning it over to an attorney, which I hate to do, but absolutely will. About an hour later, I received a call from the Dispute Specialist in Atlanta (a very nice woman) who said that she finally, today (what a coincidence) got approval to replace my engine with a new factory engine.

My long winded question is this...does the value of the car drop considerably if a new engine is put into it after just 4 months? Does anyone here have experience in New Jersey with the Lemon Law?

I am so disappointed...heartbroken actually....that the car I have waited for has given me nothing but problems and frustrations. Am I crazy to want a replacement car?

I appreciate anyone's thoughts...as well as anyone that might know someone in PCNA that it might be worth me speaking with.

 

I wouldn't see the value of your car diminishing. I'm glad to hear that PCNA has stepped up to the plate to resolve this for you. Let them fix the car. I believe they have to make three attempts to fix the problem and it has to be the same problem at each attempt before the car can be declared a lemon. From your post it sounds as if they were evaluating your issue before deciding that a new engine was in order.

 

I would do EVERYTHING in my power to get it lemoned. If I was in the market for a used 911, I would not look twice at a car that had its engine replaced after just 6 months.

 

You would not see the value diminishing???
Whenever the demand drops, the price drops. Demand for a used car with a replaced engine, multiple visits to the dealer, fuel pump change.... all adds upto decrease in value in the buyers perception. Worst yet (hopefully not), the list of problems may grow. I would definitely try to get your money back. I went through this with a "check engine light" issue when I purchased a VOLVO in 2005 (traded in a 2002 996 cab after i totaled my DD. it was a mistake and another story). The volvo rep offered to deem the vehicle as a lemon and i was refunded almost the entire price of the vehicle after returning the volvo over 5 times to the dealer for the CEL. They prorate the refund amount based on when you first contacted the dealer for the proposed problem that deemed the vehicle a lemon. My CEL came on within a week of the purchase and i got just about all the $$$ back. This was in California. Your lemon law maybe different. Why not try speaking to the Porsche rep and state your request for the money back. You certainly went through due dilegence. Best of Luck and sorry to hear about your story. I hope for a nice outcome.

 

This is a very tough question . A similar example came up on the Turbo forum where the guy was in your same shoes . My advice to him was to table this with sales and have them help you hedge the loss . You pay a little , they make a little less .. but you are in a new car . The cost of arbitration in time and headache is awful . Other forum members told him to just accept the new motor .

He was very upset and declared that he did not want a new motor . He also did not want to pay one cent more . He wanted a NEW CAR!!!!!
He was adamant and most of us thought he didn;t stand a chance .

He disappeared for a few months from posting onbly to return with how he went about getting that NEW CAR !!!.

Here are the threads --
1) His original complaint https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...180-miles.html

2) His new car https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ent-lemon.html

Good luck!!!!!

 

Don't think "stepped up to plate " describes Porsche response here. They decided that legal action would cost them more than a new engine. Period. And as the typical Porsche owner is in a position to pay for legal action and given the lemon law in New Jersey they were evaluating how much it would cost to defend said legal action. Even a decent contract attorney makes $ 300-500 an hour. I would suggest that Porsche's outside counsel costs them a good deal more than that. They would never let it get to court for fear that future buyers might rethink purchasing a $ 100,000 car with an unreliable engine and no warranty protection.

 

A car that is bought back by the manufacturer has a condition of a clear title. So there are many cars on the market with NO record at the dealerships because those were purged after the car was voluntarily bought back. The car will usually go to an out of state auction and the new buyer will have no idea. Truly sad but what can you do? Buy a CPO from a dealer to prevent this from happening to you.

How do I know what I write of? I had a Touareg V8 bought back by VW after repeated oil in the coolant system that started at ~900 miles on the odometer. They offered the buyback and put in a new engine and let me drive a few thousand miles until the actual buyback occurred.

I would walk away from a new engine. Porsche knows what the lemon law is and will do what is right. I would highly doubt that this goes to court.

Good luck.

 

Im with Larry on this, demand a new CAR. GL mate.

 

Nothing wrong about replacing an engine. PAG will assign the new engine number to the car's VIN and the car is whole. No need to replace the whole car.

 

But the car has had problems almost from day. Would you want your car rebuilt this early on? It won't be any better than a new one that comes with a new engine, so why accept a new engine.

To the OP, you are logging days in the shop a this point no? So you will have satisfied the lemon law and they will make a voluntary buyback offer or a new car. To me its a no brainer.

 

The value will certainly drop a little if you plan to sell it in the next 15 years. The only time a new engine adds value is after a car has been mostly depreciated and has seen lots of miles. You might find someone willing to overlook it, but most buyers will steer clear...even if you discount it a little. I feel for you on this one.

I'm also not sure the lemon law is clear cut in your favor on this. Maybe I missed a detail...but it sounds like you've had different quality issues...and the lemon law is usualy applied when the same major issue cannot be repaired in multiple attempts) However, there is also a "20days in the shop" clause if you really do want to go down that path. Involving lawyers is always a pain. It takes time (and money) and can be a long drawn out process.

Personally, I would do my best to exchange the car. Call a meeting with the salesperson and the dealer GM. August wasn't that long ago, your car shouldn't be falling apart. If they won't exchange it, then do the engine fix/swap and negotiate in extended coverage, and a few free major/minor services, etc. If that doesn't work, then I guess go the legal-route.

Its funny how everyone in here talks about the super-quality of Porsches...but the quality is only relative to those of other performance cars. My daughter's 15 year old Lexus hand-me-down with 160,000 miles that still has better quality than any Porsche on the road.

...The New Jersey Lemon Law applies to new cars, both purchased and leased, which suffer a nonconformity; a defect or condition, which substantially impairs the use, value or safety; that cannot be repaired after three attempts by an authorized manufacturer's dealership. This nonconformity must first occur within the first 24 months or 24,000 miles, whichever comes first. The New Jersey Lemon Law also applies to vehicles that are in the shop for repair twenty (20) or more calendar days during the first 24 months or 24,000 miles (whichever comes first), and those which have a serious defect which could cause bodily harm or death that is not fixed after one repair attempt....

 

Lucky you-that Lemon law in NJ is very favorable for the consumer. In Colorado, it's 4 repairs or 30 days.

How many days has the car been in the shop?

 

Thanks for all of the responses! Although the car has only been in the shop about 15 days, I did bring it back 6 times for the oil issue.
After writing PCNA one more time this weekend, pleading to at least reconsider their response, I was sent a terse reply that this was their final offer, otherwise I can go to arbitration. Arbitration??? I thought both sides have to agree to arbitration?
I already contacted a Lemon Law firm this morning. Now its on principle...the reply from them made no attempt to at least placate me, after I sent a very heartfelt email over the weekend.
I did talk to the Sales Manager of my dealership a few weeks ago, and he said they had no interest in trying to put together a new deal for me, even though I was willing to put in some additional money if needed.
I have to say that although I still absolutely love the car, I miss the professionalism of Audi and BMW. My precious cars, an S4 and a 650, were great vehicles...and the dealerships were wonderful

 

The value may or may not be impacted. Think about it this way. Maybe 1% of all Porsche fanatics even think to ask about things like we're discussing here. Yes, one of us would ask for maintenance records, DME readout for over-revs, etc. Would we, if looking at a pristine 2009 C2S ask "Hey, has this engine been replaced?!?" I doubt it. And that new engine would run like a Swiss watch probably for 20 years without another problem. We all tend to get worked up about work done on our cars. In this case, Porsche is saying they will replace the amp that died and replace the entire engine. My guess is they'll give you a Porsche loaner while the work is being done. Do I like it? No. I wouldn't want those doubts in my mind either - whether the new one will be OK, if it will somehow diminish my enjoyment of the car or impact resale 5 years down the road when I get another Porsche. But I think we all often over analyze this. I think the more reasonable you appear with them, the more likely you may get what you want without the lawyers. If you have to do this through legal channels, you might spend $10k without blinking an eye.

 

I believe that the second hand value of a car like that would not devalue much differently than from any other approved porsche. I'm not sure if it is different from Australia but Porsche Australia offer warranty up to 9 years after the basic 2, on a year-by-year check basis.

So if the car had a new engine put in after 6 months, the new car warranty will still play out to 24 months. If the car was traded in or sold back to the dealer after a year, the vehicle will still have to go through Porsche Certification and sold back to the public with the standard warranty + renewal options.

This ensures that the porsches here are kept in VERY good condition and they hold their values extremely well compared to Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW & Mercedes Benz.

If I were in the market for a used 997.2 I wouldn't look past one that has had major warranty issues. So long as they can guarantee that they're fixed, I'm competent that the techs and quality staff have given it a good bill of health. Plus, I have the extended warranty as peace of mind.

I'm sorry to hear about your predicament. I think the honeymoon period of having your 911 was tarnished by these series of events, when they should have been ones of sublime driving pleasure! I think you've not been given the courtesy of reasonable correspondence and that they have a case to answer to for that. I would expect a written apology for the lack of effort they have made to inform you of their progress and you should expect some **** grovelling on their part in the future.

... I just read your last post about the level of arbitration that they have sunken to. Poor form! Very very poor form! What a great way for a dealership to throw away its customers, whilst tarnishing the brand image! Is this dealership a 'factory' dealership? i.e., owned by PCNA? Or is it one of the other private companies selling a range of brands? I would hope you would disclose the name and location of this dealership to others here so they can be well warned of buying any FUTURE P-cars for the level of after-sales service is extremely poor. They say that the level of customer service of an organisation can be judged by the way they handle grievances and complaints. By the sounds of it, these guys stink!