e46 M3 to Porsche 997 C2S - My take
#31
Nice write up...
Like the others here I agree with most of what you said, 2 points in particular:
- The 911's limit is so far out there that driving it on a regular errand is kinda boring and feels like a waste to me. Even if I'm a little spirited, it's no where close to the limits.
- Unwanted attention. Drove my E46 M3 for 4 years, and can't recall being flipped off for no reason which has happened a few times now. Also being pulled over for no reason (happened once, he claimed it was because I didn't have plates yet, but I saw he had a trainee going for the ride along). Also agree with others, I don't want to have a conversation with a non-enthusiast in a parking lot about how much the car costs or hear "Wow, you must do really well". Those comments are always from random men, not clients or enthusiasts.
(no thoughts on using either for a DD though)
Like the others here I agree with most of what you said, 2 points in particular:
- The 911's limit is so far out there that driving it on a regular errand is kinda boring and feels like a waste to me. Even if I'm a little spirited, it's no where close to the limits.
- Unwanted attention. Drove my E46 M3 for 4 years, and can't recall being flipped off for no reason which has happened a few times now. Also being pulled over for no reason (happened once, he claimed it was because I didn't have plates yet, but I saw he had a trainee going for the ride along). Also agree with others, I don't want to have a conversation with a non-enthusiast in a parking lot about how much the car costs or hear "Wow, you must do really well". Those comments are always from random men, not clients or enthusiasts.
(no thoughts on using either for a DD though)
Last edited by mrdonut; 01-10-2010 at 11:04 AM.
#32
Wow. I bought my 997 as a daily driver and based upon the comments it appears to suck for unwanted attention...
Have you guys ever owned a NSX?
I've owned 2 and let me tell you there's no comparison between the unwanted attention of driving a Porsche and a NSX. I'd be willing to bet that if you parked a 911 next to a NSX people will be asking about the NSX all day long. Been there done that and have the certificate to prove it.
I've had people flip me off, yell out nice Lamborghini - too bad you have a small dick, swerve into my lane to get a better look (yeah too close for comfort), had people have their girlfriends lay on the hood for provacative photos, kids try sitting on it, and I could go on and on.
I'm quite excited to be finally driving an everyday, see them on every corner, Porsche.
Have you guys ever owned a NSX?
I've owned 2 and let me tell you there's no comparison between the unwanted attention of driving a Porsche and a NSX. I'd be willing to bet that if you parked a 911 next to a NSX people will be asking about the NSX all day long. Been there done that and have the certificate to prove it.
I've had people flip me off, yell out nice Lamborghini - too bad you have a small dick, swerve into my lane to get a better look (yeah too close for comfort), had people have their girlfriends lay on the hood for provacative photos, kids try sitting on it, and I could go on and on.
I'm quite excited to be finally driving an everyday, see them on every corner, Porsche.
Last edited by Jetpilot3; 01-10-2010 at 01:24 PM.
#33
Excellent read. Thank you dnewC2s for initiating this thread. I very much enjoyed reading a 6speed stalwart's (yrralis1's) take on the comparison. Last year when I was ready for a real "guys" car, it was going to be either a 911 or an M3/M6. Thanks to the 6speed community I came to know of the deep discounts on the '09 911's and this was the main reason I started with a test drive of the 911. Never went to check out the M's. Went with 911 for four reasons: The exclusivity of the brand (agreed its not a Maserati or an Aston)..atleast in my neck of the woods, 15 % off MSRP deal on a fully loaded brand new C4S which may be a once in a lifetime event, timeless exterior styling (M's dont even come close). I recently noted the striking resemblance between a Kia Forte and the BMW's atleast from behind http://www.kia.com/#/forte-koup/explore/
Nissan is trying hard to match the 911's. http://www.nissanusa.com/zcoupe/
Agreed you are paying more for the performance for a JCW, AMG, M or an S, but I would want it to be visually more distinguishable than it's more sedate counterparts. The downside to the 911 compared to the M's include all the attention (atleast in my small town), concealed jealousy (of fake friends and family members) and a rich man's car tag that is associated with the Porsche's. If I asked ten of my patients as to which would be a more affordable car ?...the M6 or a Cayman... I am willing to bet that all ten would go with the M6. Current Porsche enthusiasts or future enthusiasts wannabe would always be percieved as rich, selfish and arrogant by a good portion of the community.
Nissan is trying hard to match the 911's. http://www.nissanusa.com/zcoupe/
Agreed you are paying more for the performance for a JCW, AMG, M or an S, but I would want it to be visually more distinguishable than it's more sedate counterparts. The downside to the 911 compared to the M's include all the attention (atleast in my small town), concealed jealousy (of fake friends and family members) and a rich man's car tag that is associated with the Porsche's. If I asked ten of my patients as to which would be a more affordable car ?...the M6 or a Cayman... I am willing to bet that all ten would go with the M6. Current Porsche enthusiasts or future enthusiasts wannabe would always be percieved as rich, selfish and arrogant by a good portion of the community.
#34
I had an E46 before going to the 996 40th and now the 2009 C2S PDK.
Sound - I did not like the sound of the E46 rasp - prefer Porsche's noise. Porsche could be louder - I wish I got PSE (will likely get it ). Winner Porsche.
DD - E46 was a much better DD than the 996. 996 was loud, bumpy and cramped. But it was a much more enjoyable ride - I prefer sports cars to sports sedans. The 997.2 with SPASM and PDK is absolutely fine as a DD. In normal auto and suspension, you can absolutely speak on the BT and the Nav PCM3.0 is excellent. For practicality winner = M3, but 997.2 is way more fun.
Quality - My 40th anniversary's interior wasnt as nice as the M3's but actually wore better. Had both for over 4 years. I think the 997.2 is far better. E92 may be a tie from what I've seen.
Performance - 996 with X51 was faster than the E46. 997.2S is faster still. I think the Porsche's handling is far better, much better brakes. However, you have to be a very competent driver to drive the 911 at the limit. Winner - Porsche.
Bottom line - if you want a sports sedan get an M3 (better trunk and 4 seats). If you want a bigger smile and a sports car you can drive everyday get a 997.2 with PDK.
Sound - I did not like the sound of the E46 rasp - prefer Porsche's noise. Porsche could be louder - I wish I got PSE (will likely get it ). Winner Porsche.
DD - E46 was a much better DD than the 996. 996 was loud, bumpy and cramped. But it was a much more enjoyable ride - I prefer sports cars to sports sedans. The 997.2 with SPASM and PDK is absolutely fine as a DD. In normal auto and suspension, you can absolutely speak on the BT and the Nav PCM3.0 is excellent. For practicality winner = M3, but 997.2 is way more fun.
Quality - My 40th anniversary's interior wasnt as nice as the M3's but actually wore better. Had both for over 4 years. I think the 997.2 is far better. E92 may be a tie from what I've seen.
Performance - 996 with X51 was faster than the E46. 997.2S is faster still. I think the Porsche's handling is far better, much better brakes. However, you have to be a very competent driver to drive the 911 at the limit. Winner - Porsche.
Bottom line - if you want a sports sedan get an M3 (better trunk and 4 seats). If you want a bigger smile and a sports car you can drive everyday get a 997.2 with PDK.
#35
I have to agree that the BMW is a much better daily driver then the Porsche. But the Porsche is much better spirited driver, so it really depends on what you are looking to accomplish.
I had an 01 996 for (3) years and just was not driving it enough (I have an 88 911 for the track) so I decided to trade the 996 for an 06 M3 with competition package, and I have to admit that I loved this car. It soon became a regular driver for me because of the ease of driving it daily. But after a couple of years I really started to miss my Porsche. I was at a meeting one day and when we all came outside there was a stock 996 parked next to my M3 and everyone went to look at the Porsche and nobody even mentioned the M3, which was clearly more modified and comparable.
Needless to say, I started to look for another Porsche. I now own this very attractive 997 that turns heads every time I drive it. The only issue I have now is that I have to carefully plan my route as the car is slammed and with the GT3 front end, I cannot just pull into any Starbucks...but when I can, it usually is the center of attention.
Porsche, there is no substitute!
I had an 01 996 for (3) years and just was not driving it enough (I have an 88 911 for the track) so I decided to trade the 996 for an 06 M3 with competition package, and I have to admit that I loved this car. It soon became a regular driver for me because of the ease of driving it daily. But after a couple of years I really started to miss my Porsche. I was at a meeting one day and when we all came outside there was a stock 996 parked next to my M3 and everyone went to look at the Porsche and nobody even mentioned the M3, which was clearly more modified and comparable.
Needless to say, I started to look for another Porsche. I now own this very attractive 997 that turns heads every time I drive it. The only issue I have now is that I have to carefully plan my route as the car is slammed and with the GT3 front end, I cannot just pull into any Starbucks...but when I can, it usually is the center of attention.
Porsche, there is no substitute!
#36
I went from a 2008 M5 (SMG) to an 08 C4s. Both cars were dream cars for me, but the opportunity to get into a new pcar for 24% off MSRP couldn't be passed up. One of the guys I work with told me I'd miss the beast, but I he was wrong.
The aesthetics and feel of my 911 is unparalleled. But, the M5 is a ringer to most people since they have no idea how much power it possesses. I found the SMG to be pretty terrible and I missed driving stick for the time I owned the car. I did enjoy having only 1 car (was able to put my bike racks on the m5) and have since purchased a used SUV for hauling stuff and inclement weather.
Overall, I'm very happy with the 911, though some of the creaks and cabin noise do get annoying. Do I regret anything? No way. I'm happy to join the club.
The aesthetics and feel of my 911 is unparalleled. But, the M5 is a ringer to most people since they have no idea how much power it possesses. I found the SMG to be pretty terrible and I missed driving stick for the time I owned the car. I did enjoy having only 1 car (was able to put my bike racks on the m5) and have since purchased a used SUV for hauling stuff and inclement weather.
Overall, I'm very happy with the 911, though some of the creaks and cabin noise do get annoying. Do I regret anything? No way. I'm happy to join the club.
#37
I traded in my 2005 M3 convertible for the 2008 911 C2S.
Aesthetics: Winner: Porsche
Porsche is a true sports car, to me an M is a 3 series with nice engine/suspension. If you want a sports car, the 911 is much nicer looking.
Sound: Winner, Porsche. On the M3 I never changed the exhaust on the M and my Porsche has the PSE, which is awesome.
Practicality: Winner: M3. I haven't done much yet in terms of taking it for an overnight trip, but clearly the space is limited.
Reliability: I don't know yet, but I had a lot of trouble with my M3, but it was all under warranty. Still a pain to bring it in all time time. I only had 34K when I sold it, but the VANOS went twice and I eventually had the entire steering column and other steering parts replaced b/c of leaking. Winner: yet to be determined.
Value: M3. I can't even argue this at all.
Performance: Porsche especially on cornering.
Feel: Winner: Porsche
Quality: Winner: Porsche, but the M3 was very good too.
Perception: Winner: Porsche, but it's not positive in all respects. I had dirty looks from coworkers (males) when they heard I had it. I get dirty looks from others around town and I live in a rich area. Everyone wants to race, but that was in either car.
Conclusion: Porsche, but the negative attention is worrisome.
Aesthetics: Winner: Porsche
Porsche is a true sports car, to me an M is a 3 series with nice engine/suspension. If you want a sports car, the 911 is much nicer looking.
Sound: Winner, Porsche. On the M3 I never changed the exhaust on the M and my Porsche has the PSE, which is awesome.
Practicality: Winner: M3. I haven't done much yet in terms of taking it for an overnight trip, but clearly the space is limited.
Reliability: I don't know yet, but I had a lot of trouble with my M3, but it was all under warranty. Still a pain to bring it in all time time. I only had 34K when I sold it, but the VANOS went twice and I eventually had the entire steering column and other steering parts replaced b/c of leaking. Winner: yet to be determined.
Value: M3. I can't even argue this at all.
Performance: Porsche especially on cornering.
Feel: Winner: Porsche
Quality: Winner: Porsche, but the M3 was very good too.
Perception: Winner: Porsche, but it's not positive in all respects. I had dirty looks from coworkers (males) when they heard I had it. I get dirty looks from others around town and I live in a rich area. Everyone wants to race, but that was in either car.
Conclusion: Porsche, but the negative attention is worrisome.
Last edited by michaeldantep; 01-26-2010 at 03:59 PM.
#38
Good topic
I got my first Pcar, a 09' C2 6 speed last fall coming from a 550i sport. Although M cars are a special breed, the 550i was a special bit of kit with non-run flats, sport exhaust and M sport suspension. A proper BMW then. So I can relate to the comparisons with the E46 M3.
This really boils down to priorities. Do you love driving a sports car, or only like the image of having a sports car? BMWs are all mass production luxury designs (excellent ones at that). Then M takes a bread and butter chassis and spiffs it up (more in some cases than others...i.e. MX5/6). But the soul of the car is mass production luxury underpinnings. That's why the pilot sports on my car can be heard inside the cabin, yet they are all but silent on my friend's E90 M3. Sound insulation, bushings specified to dampen road irregularities etc.. these are the "luxury" items that M cars have that a 911 does not. And as a result the 911 is a sharper tool weighing considerably less.
BMWs have a admirable blend of performance and comfort, but the 911 serves only one master and that is performance. If you DD the 911 you must accept what it lacks, and if that trade-off is unacceptable then you need an additional vehicle or a different DD all together.
Personally, I drove the wheels off my 550. It took it in stride, but I was always trying to drive a sports sedan like a sports car. The 911 is a better fit for my style. My BMW sales assoc. was so upset when I got the 911. But he was forced to agree with my reasoning: BMW does not make a sports car (Z8 and M1 IMHO were sports cars, the M3, 1 series and 6 series are not). The crazy new M3 GTS is probably closer in road feel to a 997.2 C2S than the base M3.
DRP
This really boils down to priorities. Do you love driving a sports car, or only like the image of having a sports car? BMWs are all mass production luxury designs (excellent ones at that). Then M takes a bread and butter chassis and spiffs it up (more in some cases than others...i.e. MX5/6). But the soul of the car is mass production luxury underpinnings. That's why the pilot sports on my car can be heard inside the cabin, yet they are all but silent on my friend's E90 M3. Sound insulation, bushings specified to dampen road irregularities etc.. these are the "luxury" items that M cars have that a 911 does not. And as a result the 911 is a sharper tool weighing considerably less.
BMWs have a admirable blend of performance and comfort, but the 911 serves only one master and that is performance. If you DD the 911 you must accept what it lacks, and if that trade-off is unacceptable then you need an additional vehicle or a different DD all together.
Personally, I drove the wheels off my 550. It took it in stride, but I was always trying to drive a sports sedan like a sports car. The 911 is a better fit for my style. My BMW sales assoc. was so upset when I got the 911. But he was forced to agree with my reasoning: BMW does not make a sports car (Z8 and M1 IMHO were sports cars, the M3, 1 series and 6 series are not). The crazy new M3 GTS is probably closer in road feel to a 997.2 C2S than the base M3.
DRP
Last edited by drspeed; 01-11-2010 at 02:13 PM.
#40
I came from an M3 as well (2003 e46 M3 coupe). I have also owned an e30 M3 and an e36 M3. All three M3s and the current 997S have been daily drivers.
Bottom line, the 997s blows all the others away. I am not here to bash M3s because I drove and enjoyed them. The e30 was the best handler, the e36 was the best daily driver, and the e46 had the best engine of the three. The 997S is in a different league. It is by far a better car. I don't miss the e46 M3 at all (okay, I sort of miss the ability to throw my golf clubs in the trunk and leave them there.)
The 997S is actually a better daily driver. The engine is more flexable, and PASM is amazing as you can go comfort or sport. It rides better then the e46 M3 even with 19" Turbo width tires. Both cars have been or were utterly reliable. I also thought the M3 sounded like crap.
Two anacdotal stories; First, I took the M3 to Buttonwillow in 2007 for a private track day with some friends. After just two hard laps, the brakes failed and were smoking like crazy. The engine also began to overheat. Basically, I had to park it for 45 minutes for every hot lap. I recently took the 997S to the Streets of Willow with the same group of friends. The 997 ran all day without a hitch.
Second, I have driven both the M3 and 997 up to Monterey for the historic races in August. The M3 was just a little more tiring to drive. I didn't realize until I drove the 997 up and couldn't believe how easy it seemed. There is also a stretch of road between I-5 and 101 that is 50-odd miles of turns and no traffic. The 997 was just easier through the pass (and substantially faster).
For the money, the M3 is a great car. The 997 is just better (if not slightly less practical).
Bottom line, the 997s blows all the others away. I am not here to bash M3s because I drove and enjoyed them. The e30 was the best handler, the e36 was the best daily driver, and the e46 had the best engine of the three. The 997S is in a different league. It is by far a better car. I don't miss the e46 M3 at all (okay, I sort of miss the ability to throw my golf clubs in the trunk and leave them there.)
The 997S is actually a better daily driver. The engine is more flexable, and PASM is amazing as you can go comfort or sport. It rides better then the e46 M3 even with 19" Turbo width tires. Both cars have been or were utterly reliable. I also thought the M3 sounded like crap.
Two anacdotal stories; First, I took the M3 to Buttonwillow in 2007 for a private track day with some friends. After just two hard laps, the brakes failed and were smoking like crazy. The engine also began to overheat. Basically, I had to park it for 45 minutes for every hot lap. I recently took the 997S to the Streets of Willow with the same group of friends. The 997 ran all day without a hitch.
Second, I have driven both the M3 and 997 up to Monterey for the historic races in August. The M3 was just a little more tiring to drive. I didn't realize until I drove the 997 up and couldn't believe how easy it seemed. There is also a stretch of road between I-5 and 101 that is 50-odd miles of turns and no traffic. The 997 was just easier through the pass (and substantially faster).
For the money, the M3 is a great car. The 997 is just better (if not slightly less practical).
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
oddjob142
Automotive Parts & Accessories For Sale/Wanted
0
08-19-2015 12:27 PM