Sayboy - I think you make some excellent comments here. For anyone looking to wring out A lot more power, I believe you are spot on.

At the moment, I'm interested in the sound, not max performance. IMHO the 997.2 could be confused with an Accord exhaust note. With my upcoming setup with cargraphics sides and sharkwerks bypass, I can always add new headers and high flow cats to get even more power since this is a modular system. I also happen to think this combo is the best sound, though that's a very personal preference. Oh, and with any exhaust change like this an ecu flash is usually necessary to optimize power increase.

Just a quick shout out to Rennsport-1 and Sharkwerks for the top-notch products and customer support. I believe they have the hottest 997.2S out there today, and they've tested so many different vendor combinations that I personally don't have to worry about making the wrong choice for my stated purpose.

I think I may add h&r springs and some new shoes. I'm also really digging the designs from RS-1 as well.

After that will I call it a day? No, it's a journey rember.

But back to your post I think it's a great contribution because not everyone knows what I'm doing won't maximize hp. If anyone reading this thread is looking to do that, give both Rennsport-1 and Sharkwerks a call.

 

You don't think swapping out the stock side and center mufflers and going with center muffler by pass and cargraphic sides will yield any hp gain? That has to be at worst 'a little' less restrictive but more important how about the weight reduction. There's power to be had right there.

 

Understood and respected. We all have our own goals and to liven up the sound is a good one

I can't see how the crossover/mufflers will have any meaningful effect on back-pressure, and would love to see a B/A dyno with only those mods. I would be willing to bet a beer and a buck there is no difference in hp/tq unless it is a loss. Therefore, money spent on a flash is not a good ROI.

Seriously and honestly, I do not. At best no power gain, but most likely, power loss (as AWE reports) from the crossover. Weight loss (that is always a beautiful thing!) is without doubt the only performance gain to be expected from such a combo based upon everything I have ever seen or read that is credible.

If there by some stroke of luck IS a hp/tq increase, where exactly in the powerband is it occurring? What if it is 100 rpm before redline? Is that usable power?

If you are looking for sound and weight-loss then I understand, and I agree.

But power is only going to come from headers and cats. And a bit more from an ECU flash afterward.

Would it ever be awesome to see a conclusive, neutral party conducted, dyno shoot-out with various components? Never going to happen though I am afraid...

Please keep in mind, I have nothing to sell, no agenda, and no dog in the fight...lol. I have do have a diploma from a respected automotive technical college, worked for a couple years with a SuperFlow engine dynomometer in an engine dyno test cell doing aftermarket fuel-system/ignition system development work, and earned a living as a professional tech in one of my "earlier lives".

The dyno is where the truth begins and ends, regardless of/or in spite of the sheer volume and mass of marketing effort...hehe

There is so much here to consider if one is to be a careful and fully informed consumer.

 

would do it just for the change in exhaust note

 

I think we are in overall agreement on many of the points.

Dragstrip is another real-life "test" and I agree with that. But as an adjunct measurement. On the road, Low and Mid range power is where most 911's spend their lives and I would argue it is critical to know where in the powerband the power is being made. Dragstrip will only show final result. A dyno will generate a chart of where the power is, and is perfectly suitable for back to back, before/after comparison.

Regarding your statement on "independent" pipe power loss:

"While the X-Pipe is a sound enhancer, it does create a tad more flow restriction to the exhaust gas, resulting in low and high rpms power loss. Continuing our tradition of disclosing our test data, no matter good or bad, we have included dyno charts for 997.2 X-Pipe below."

And they make NO horsepower claim for their mufflers.

Per AWE (http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shar...L=997.2_x-pipe)

That is a statement direct from a well respected designer/manufacturer of exhaust systems (AWE).

Mixing and matching of components is fine if that achieves your desire for a certain sound, HOWEVER- not smart from a stand point of maximizing and/or optimizing power gains. All the components must be designed to work together for the system to make power. Anyone not understanding this, should read up on the science of exhaust system design: http://www.custom-car.us/exhaust/default.aspx

I fully understand and respect those that primarily seek a different sound. And could care less about how it affects performance. We all love a screamer. But in the attempt to achieve the "sound" goal, it is important that less technically informed forum readers understand they may (likely) hurt power by choosing a mis-matched system.

AWE, FVD/Brombacher, Akrapovic all make fine sounding, matched component exhaust systems. FVD will work with you to customize the sound level at idle and WOT. Akrapovic or FVD in Ti is the way to go for weight loss. Not everyone wants to spend that kind of money and I understand that too. But if you invested in the finest driving machine, why cheap out on aftermarket parts and home-brewed combos?

All the above comment is 997.2 specific.

Hey- bottom line we spend our own money, and we choose what we want, right? To each his own and I hope everyone enjoys their Porsche!

Cheers-

Oh, PS: Those seeking the ultimate in "sizzle" over "steak" may wish to install the ultimate exhaust accessory? Word is, this makes your car sound like it has a Formula 1 engine! (haha- just kidding "sound" guys!)

 

Here are some pics of the 2009 C2S. Yes, the yellow side markers will be replaced At the end are some pics of my prior GT3 and Turbo just for old time's sake. Also at the end is a short vid of my GT3 (stock).











Pic of my 2010 GT3 before I took delivery:



Pic of my 2009 Turbo:



Interior (modded) of my Turbo:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Za39qGWZE

 

Why do you say this - why would you not go back to a 997 Turbo?

Thanks

 

^^^I would not go back to the 997.1 turbo because I quickly grew accustomed to the speed (stock), then went with the AWE 650S kit -- which was awesome. However, I quickly grew accustomed to that as well.

So it was not worth the extra $ for me to get back into the turbo for my purposes of a DD.

As a brief update -- I've driven about 200 miles in my 997.2S. The 0-60, 30-60, 60-80 pulls feel almost as strong as the 2010 GT3. The 997.2S is similar in straight line performance to the 2010 GT3 from where I'm sitting. Once I add in the new sound, I think it will "feel" faster.

So I think in about 2 weeks when the key mods are done, I will be feeling much better about my decision

 

Isn't it amazing how you can grow accustomed to just about anything? When I first got my 997, I was blown away - I'm more used to it now.

 

nice series of cars you've enjoyed Taylor. Hope you also enjoy the latest with the kids along with you!

 

I have the crossover pipes now from Sharkwerks. Great product!!
Any suggestions where to get the Cargraphic side mufflers?

 

Taylor's cars look fantastic !!!

I know he answered the question but I also have a Turbo and have such a very different opinion .
I like all of these cars - in fact .. I'll take all three!!

But........

There is not one shred of doubt in my mind that the Turbo is number 1 by a huge margin. I do not know why the mass concensus amongst the normally aspirated guys have such a misconception about the Turbo .

They claim the 997s is more track ready but look at the track data and the depending on which track the Turbo wins a lot too . They ignore driver skill as a factor and seeing a few 997S beat the Turbo may simply come down to the driver or the track or BOTH.

The Turbo is considered "soft" and one person in this forum even said "Lexus" like . Make no mistake --the Turbo can be modified far beyond the 997S to be a very raw driving machine.

The 997S owners tend to downgrade the Cayman and the Turbo . The Cayman actually is very balanced for the very argument of track profiency.


Summary -
1) The Turbo beats the 997S at the Ring. http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html

2) The Turbo completely smears the 997S in every straight line contest --king of the rolling start-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_kfa...rom=PL&index=6

Even the Gt3 RS -- can not hang in a straight line. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPBeM3UhKyo&NR=1

** Those were STOCK cars --modified the Turbo pulls even harder and does not let off .

3) Even stock --the new PDK Turbo (although missing the Gt1 ) does have the ability to utilize PDK retaining boost in shifting --making the new Turbo .. a sheer monster . We have yet to see where the Tuners wil take this NOR have we seen the Turbo S.

Conclusion --There is no comparison . Whatever fun or practical factor there is in the 997S ---it's a great car but there can only be ONE king . The 997tt !!!

I have owned both . I have both ..I love both . BUT ---The Turbo rules !!!!

 

Yes sir...give Justin a call at Rennsport-1. I'm having my Cargraphic exhaust put on tomorrow!

p: 305-328-9455
f: 305-390-0398
m: 305-484-8044
www.rennsport-one.com

 

@yrralis1 -- I think you make a strong case as to why you think the 997tt is king. The 997tt seems to meet or exceed most of your criteria, which I interpret from your post as:
* killer straight line performance
* great modding potential
* good track performance (though I see you admit the 997S wins on some tracks)

Perhaps there are more criteria but that's what I gleaned from your most recent post.

I'm not familiar with your interactions with 997S drivers "downgrading the Cayman and Turbo". I think among car enthusiasts there is not tolerance for downgrading anyone's car -- whatever it may be.

I have a friend with a $40M personal car collection (mostly famous old 50's and 60's race cars with insane heritage). He also just traded one of his cars for a Veyron and an Enzo (he still owes me a ride in the Veyron when the weather clears). At the time, I had a 997tt and he treated me as if my car was just as inspiring as his collection -- when in fact a major service and tire change for both the Veyron and Enzo would cost more than my Turbo.

Sure, friendly competition (and of course professional competition) has its place in "mine's better than yours". But outside of that, I think it's our role, as leaders in the car enthusiast realm, to not propagate petty and emotional claims that one car is better than the other.

The purpose of this thread is to document my journey from the 2010 GT3 to the 2009 997S. As the OP, pretty much anything related to this is welcome except for absolute claims as to why something is the "king", or "number 1 by a huge margin". I think this type of discourse is unproductive, uninspiring, and could fairly well insult those who may be reading this thread and who saved for years to buy their dream car -- be it a Cayman, 997S, or other. It's just not appropriate and is not welcome in my thread.

 

Very well put !

We usually have such wrong attitude against other cars or car owners

Good lesson this paragraph. Try to always be humble and just share car enthusiasm with others !