If the 911's rear motor config is so bad.. Please explain this
#16
#17
I find it amusing when people talk about Porsche engines being in the wrong place -- since the front engine placement is based on an ox and a cart.
Part of the challenge of driving a rear-engined vehicle well is that it handles differently than front engine vehicles. Few things are more rewarding than learning how much steering you can do with brakes and throttle.
That this doesn't appeal to your grandparents and posers shouldn't be of major concern.
Part of the challenge of driving a rear-engined vehicle well is that it handles differently than front engine vehicles. Few things are more rewarding than learning how much steering you can do with brakes and throttle.
That this doesn't appeal to your grandparents and posers shouldn't be of major concern.
#18
#19
Comparing BMW to Porsche is apples to apples. One makes sporty sedans, the other makes real sports cars.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 06-03-2010 at 01:08 PM.
#20
#21
This debate is never-ending. People continue to complain that the 911 design is obselete. Porsche ignores them, continues to refine it, and keeps on dominating the competition.
Nothing new here.
Nothing new here.
#22
I agree!
People ask why Porsche builds a rear-engine car.... well... because Porsche CAN!
It's like asking.... why do you buy a $100k+ car, where a $5000 car would be sufficient for the purpose of commute..... well.... because we CAN!
#23
#24
The GT-R is a separate story. That car was built to post lap times and compromise on everything else, including comfort, driving experience (though this is admittedly debatable, most journalists have noted that there's not as much pleasure derived from driving a GT-R at its limits) and even warranty. The warranty stipulations on the GT-R are a joke - if you've read the warranty language, which became even more onerous to buyers for the 2010 MY cars, you'd understand that Nissan reserves the right to deny warranty coverage for any or no reason.
The same argument goes for the Dodge Viper ACR. Impressive times but no fun to drive.
Last edited by P Diddy; 06-03-2010 at 10:23 AM.
#25
911 is not for everyone - all the better
Rear engine has its benefits (excellent rear traction, essentially 4 'front' wheels to brake with etc..). But what some people may fail to appreciate is that the unladen front end is what makes the steering feel of all 911s legendary.
Yes, the front end bobs up and down a bit. But, the 911 is like your childhood friend...you take the good with the bad and on balance you wouldn't trade it for anything. And if you don't feel that way after driving one (beyond a test drive), then it's not for you. No problem.
The 911 seems to generate significant envy from owners of competing cars, who ironically could have bought a 911 if they wanted to...i.e. M3, Z06 etc... I think some drivers have a hard time admitting that they are a) not pure enthusiasts; b) care far more about torque than the nuances of precise handling and c) don't want to give up a drop more comfort than necessary even in a pure sports car (an automatic Vette w/overdrive cruises on the highway at 90 compared to a 911). So its not for everyone, which makes owning and loving one that much more special.
Just like BMW won't stop producing the 2 cylinder boxer motorcycle engine b/c customers love them, so too shall Porsche continue with the rear engined 911 - I hope.
The 928 was supposed to replace the 911! Could you imagine! My dad had an 87' 928S4. Epic car, but much more of a BMW 6 series-style GT package.
DRP
Yes, the front end bobs up and down a bit. But, the 911 is like your childhood friend...you take the good with the bad and on balance you wouldn't trade it for anything. And if you don't feel that way after driving one (beyond a test drive), then it's not for you. No problem.
The 911 seems to generate significant envy from owners of competing cars, who ironically could have bought a 911 if they wanted to...i.e. M3, Z06 etc... I think some drivers have a hard time admitting that they are a) not pure enthusiasts; b) care far more about torque than the nuances of precise handling and c) don't want to give up a drop more comfort than necessary even in a pure sports car (an automatic Vette w/overdrive cruises on the highway at 90 compared to a 911). So its not for everyone, which makes owning and loving one that much more special.
Just like BMW won't stop producing the 2 cylinder boxer motorcycle engine b/c customers love them, so too shall Porsche continue with the rear engined 911 - I hope.
The 928 was supposed to replace the 911! Could you imagine! My dad had an 87' 928S4. Epic car, but much more of a BMW 6 series-style GT package.
DRP
#26
There is no substitute.
#27
I find it amusing when people talk about Porsche engines being in the wrong place -- since the front engine placement is based on an ox and a cart.
Part of the challenge of driving a rear-engined vehicle well is that it handles differently than front engine vehicles. Few things are more rewarding than learning how much steering you can do with brakes and throttle.
That this doesn't appeal to your grandparents and posers shouldn't be of major concern.
Part of the challenge of driving a rear-engined vehicle well is that it handles differently than front engine vehicles. Few things are more rewarding than learning how much steering you can do with brakes and throttle.
That this doesn't appeal to your grandparents and posers shouldn't be of major concern.
Many of the current 911 buyers have no clue about its technical characteristics and driving dynamics. They bought it for its looks, image, and on-paper performance for bragging rights. Then they are shocked it does not handle as their previous front-heavy bimmer and immediately complain that the design is wrong. These guys are not P-car fans...
#28
Some good info in this thread, I still laugh when I read about " Ring " records. No such thing as a " Ring " record as there is no sanctioning body that verifies or tracks the validity of these claims. So this may seem odd but there is no such thing as a production car ring record. They should call it production car alleged fastest time!
Porsche admitted that given a clean sheet of paper, that mid engine has its benefits. But I think it depends on the skill of the driver as mid engine cars like the Boxster can be more forgiving at the limits. But Porsche has tuned out most of the negative things that rear engine cars have to deal with.
Adias I agree with you , it takes a whole rethink of driving technique to get the most out of a 911 coming from front engine, RWD cars. To compare a BMW sedan with a Porsche is a little crazy I think. I have heard the ACR is very fun to drive in the same category as sticking your arm in a lions cage may give you a thrill!
Porsche admitted that given a clean sheet of paper, that mid engine has its benefits. But I think it depends on the skill of the driver as mid engine cars like the Boxster can be more forgiving at the limits. But Porsche has tuned out most of the negative things that rear engine cars have to deal with.
Adias I agree with you , it takes a whole rethink of driving technique to get the most out of a 911 coming from front engine, RWD cars. To compare a BMW sedan with a Porsche is a little crazy I think. I have heard the ACR is very fun to drive in the same category as sticking your arm in a lions cage may give you a thrill!
#29