Heavy I said:

Given a clean sheet, and no loyalists to satisfy...ie not their current situation. Also we were talking about which one was the best setup not just about street cars but also race cars. I know they would be crazy to change the layout now. Also why the Boxster and Cayman exist as well.

 

Also Porsche's to this point most iconic and expensive street car was mid engined , which in turn was a development from a moth balled race car project.

 

I'm not talking about their current situation, which has nothing to do with car sales. The best setup car is the one that wins championships and the 911 has had no problems in that area, be it Rolex, Speed GT, Lemans, FIA, ALMS etc.

Some of you guys are also COMPLETELY forgetting that at low hp levels, suspension aggression and low aero development, a bare bones Cayman will seem better than a barebones 911. When you start unleashing the beast with hp though it's an entirely different story. The CGT has been reported as one of the scariest cars Porsche has ever made, and given the same weight/power ratio both 997 GT2 variants would have been as fast or faster.

No need to compare the small fries, let's talk about the big dogs. Little barebones cars will favor the easier platform (from nothing) and there is no doubt the mid-engine is easier from the ground up. However the complexities that follow with modern technology make it an entirely different story.

The 997 GT2 RS is the closest to CGT treatment a 911 has gotten and we saw the result of that didn't we. Don't assume that because it's easier/better at lower levels, that the same rules apply on the top end. They have proven not to.

I'd love to see Porsche make a GT1 (class) type car to compete, but there is no reward there, the class is useless now and hardly regarded. The money and attention is in real GT racing and Porsche can not maintain their brand with a Cayman/Boxster type car as the flagship. Will not happen.

 

I am not comparing base cars, I not Porsche made some of their best race cars mid engine. Every car configuration has it good and bad, and as I have already said in other posts the GT2 RS is the high water mark for the platform and proves that through evolution and great engineering Porsche has been able to constantly improve the 911!

When you add the success they have had with the platform to the other things than it certainly makes sense for them to continue to make the 911 rear engined! My posting was about discussing the merits of mid engine vs rear engine not just neccesarily Porsche and the 911.

 

HC, I can't get a NA version of the Cayman with the power of a GT3, can't get a Turbo version (from Porsche). Should they do this, you might be surprised by how many are sold. I would never say never, particularly where Porsche is involved. Folks never thought the 356 would give way to a 6 cylinder car, never thought the 911 would be water-cooled, never thought Porsche would develop an SUV and now the Panamera. No matter how authoritatively you pronounce it, you don't have a crystal ball nor do I. With Piech now in charge, I think all bets are off (and, boy, do he like mid-engine cars: Bugatti Veyron, Audi R8, 917!). The 918 is too damn expensive to replace the 911 but the Cayman isn't.

 

The CGT is scary because it has no electronic driver aides. The New TT has torque vectoring now and gizmos to take the slack out of engine movement, whatever they call it. Hell, the car is in danger of becoming a Nissan GTR! If they increase the power of the Cayman and give it the necesary electronic gizmos to control bad behavior, it will be no scarier than a high powered 911.

 

Besides, TPC can build you a very powerful Cayman, and Randy Pobst loved it, said he wanted one in a video. Said it handles extremely well, fast, easy and rewarding to drive. Could turn off stability control and leave traction control on in the rain. Not a beast with power increase.

 

and have never driven a non 997 so I can't comment on on how earlier 911's handled but I can tell you you my 997.2 handles like a dream but its not why I chose it over it over its comp. I chose it simply because it had back seats that allow me to use it as a DD and still have a ton of fun with a real sports car. I've driven the caymen and boxster and I personally could most likely drive them faster given the same horse power but I absolutely could not get more out of them on the street than I can out of my 911 and the street is where I drive 99 percent of the time.

Now that I'm in the 911 fold I can't imagine not having one in my garage for the rest of my driving yrs.

 

Exactly why the 911 is iconic. There just aren't that many cars that can have a back seat, be homologated for true GT racing with the exact same chassis, be good for the street, track and win at racing at the same time. Not Corvette, Viper, Ferrari, GT-R etc. BMW is a close second. And this is why the 911 fits Porsche's business model. Yeah Porsche can make a mid-engine car the flagship if they want. But they couldn't sell as many cars while doing so.

The mid-engine completely loses out on street versatility to front and rear engine cars. And the main goal here is to win on Sunday, sell on Monday which is why everyone isn't going to tube frame purpose built race cars, instead they are running to the racing that shows off the potential of their street cars. A mid-engine car can compete on the track, but it cannot compete on the street.

 

Who cares. You can get a Cayman and Boxster for 20k+ cheaper. Imagine if you could get a 911 for that, how many 911's would be sold? That's a two way street and it all ends with the Cayman/Boxster losing. They simply cannot do the everyday tasks that a 911 can and hence will not result in greater sales.

I don't have a crystal ball, but any person with business sense can see that it make none for Porsche to make a less versatile car the flag ship of the brand. The setup they have now is perfect, they can build a CGT,918 every few years as a display and sell for a LOT of money, and sell the 911's in droves for 84k and up. All while still winning at racing all over the world.

You'd have to also consider that Porsche would neither name the car the Cayman, nor would they make it the same size and try to make it the head of the brand. That would be a joke. A new car would be a completely different platform and based far more on CGT/918 than a Cayman. Do you really expect people to start paying 85-90k base for a car they used to get for 60k? At least consider the big picture. It's good to dream, but seriously..............

Making an SUV or actually making a BETTER cooling system for the engine are completely different than overhauling an entire empire built over 60+ years on one model. The 911 can do everything the mid-engine car can do and more, which is why it's an icon despite it's classic design.

 

The 911 has two small seats in the back that really can't be used for much more than storage. Even then, the Cayman can carry more stuff, so it is just as capable of doing the mundane things as a 911. They could call a mid-engine car what they want, but it would still be a Cayman. And there are alot of folks calling for a Cayman with the power of a 911, so I am not convinced that it is a bad idea to continue developing the Cayman. The 911 itself has gone through some iterations in the past that were not very presentable and left Porsche on the verge of dying, but with proper development it has survived (with help from the Boxster). The Cayman, if properly developed can become an icon. There are also many out there like me who have loved the 911 since we were just out of diapers, but jumped on the Cayman bandwagon because of it's mid-engine, beauty (from our perspective), and the fact that it is closer to Porsche's original idea of a sports car (small, agile, fast) while the 911 has developed into a bloated GT in many folks opinion. Planet 9 (once the Cayman Club) is full of folks like me who want a powerful Cayman and would certainly purchase it over a Carrera or even Carrera S with more power and the Cayman name.

Bottom line, as long as Porsche continues to remain faithful to the idea of Ferry and Ferdinand, I will remain a Porsche fanatic and cheer on whatever they race over all others. I just happen to think the Cayman is a better reflection of the Gmund special than the 911 is.

 

You made your point. We understand. You have a Cayman. You want to say the Cayman is the best car.

I like the Cayman. The Cayman may indeed be better than a 911 from a stability/handling perpective in absolute terms. But that is not the point! Some of us who love 911s love it exactly because it's not mid-engine. Love it because it can dance. Get it? Guess not.

 

i do not like cayman at all. boxster is way better car than a cayman in most aspects. there are plenty of people racing spec boxtsters and 3.4l boxsters in gt3s class and those cars are interesting to have but none of them substitute real 911 series cup car.

if porsche and most porsche customers would beleive cayman concept is truly something they would be making cup cars based from cayman and not from gt3 rs.

 

Have you seen the Cayman Interseries cars?. The cars are all built by a local dealer and each one wears a classic Porsche paint job. They look great in person. Based on their laps times and what I could tell from chasing one of them, they drive really well. With a GT engine in them, these cars would really fly.

http://www.napletonmotorsports.com/

 

I was just carrying on a gentleman's discussion with HC. He knows way more than me about racing and has the experience to go with it. I learn a great deal participating in these discussions. Actually, I don't want to see the 911 replaced (Hell no, it is a very special car to me. If I had money to burn, I'd buy a 997 GT2 RS even though I'd probably kill myself). I'd just like to see Porsche offer us a little variety, say a Cayman with the same power plant options as the 911. They could offer us lobster or filet mignon. I don't see why they couldn't. I think they are missing out on a gold mine with the number of turbos TPC is putting in Caymans. Your point was that many folks like the 911 because of the rear engine design (I do too) and I was not arguing with that. Some one did bring up the issue that mid engine placement might be superior to rear engine placement as early as the third post on this thread, so I thought I was addressing one of the points being made here. I certainly wasn't trying to rustle any feathers.