I hear this over and over in many threads. "Here's a pic of me at the track with the car, where it belongs, etc., etc." Sometimes I'll see this mentioned in a condescending way in regards to mods that are for show. As if only the real Porsche owners only concern themselves with performance for the track, etc. Anyway, to the point...it's my opinion that the basic 997, 997s, Targa, Turbo, and the 4 wheel variants ARE ROAD CARS and some of the best there is; they are designed and built to be the best road going cars available. Now, on the other hand, if you take the GT3, RS, etc....these cars are built with the track in mind. So a comment like "at the track where it belongs" would be prudent, IMO. Now, I'm not saying you can't track a 997 unless it's a GT3, just that it shouldn't be assumed that this is "where the car should be and how it should be driven", that's all. What's your take, or do you even care?

J

 

Here's my $.02:
- The cars are very expensive when new and near new, and it's a big risk to take a car to the track. Most people recommend against it unless you have the financial and psychological means to write it off without too much hardship.
- At the same time, the cars are meant for performance, and although it can be argued (and it is true) that there are safe and legal ways to exercise these cars on the street, it is much safer and legal to wring these out on a closed course.
- Racing on the track is a hell of alot if fun and those that do it generally get super excited and you need to take their words with a grain of salt. (Don't get bent out of shape when you hear about a 911 belonging on the track - just chalk it up as track buzz).
- The condescending attitude does not belong in conversations amongst fellow enthusiasts, unless provoked. However, that's part of the web forum culture and you might as well get used to it. It looks like you've been around long enough that you probably already knew that.

 

I think all of the models you mentioned fit in both worlds, however the dividing line for each model is a little different. I would doubt that any of them have a perfect 50/50 balance between daily driving and track use. Each is built by Porsche to fulfill a primary role with the ability to do double duty in a secondary role (which I think is great!). A Carrera S is an absolutely fine road car with the ability to do a stint or two on the track and turn in a respectable performance. A GT3 is an excellent track car that can provide an acceptable level of comfort and driveability on the road.

Frankly, IMHO none of the Porsche sports cars look out of place in either setting.

 

I rarely see what your mentioning on this forum. Maybe its confined to some sections I don't visit.

A porsche can perform at a higher level on a track if someone puts in the effort to learn how to drive it properly on the track. The porsche model determines how much higher this level is.

Does it mean its only for the track. Of course not. Its a joy to drive anywhere. Period.

 

I will throw my opinion in the mix.

I dont think there is a Porsche sold to the public today that is meant strictly for the track. In reality, the GT and RS cars got their beginnings as dedicated "road cars" to satisfy homologation rules. I am sure you could make some interesting arguments from this alone. Even the Carrera GT was built as a homologation special in support of a Le Mans program that never was. That being said, I think every 911 sold was designed and built with the track in mind. In fact I think any car that was tested and tuned on "The Ring" was designed with track duty in mind.

When people say, "on the track where it belongs". I tend to agree since I believe all 911's were designed with the belief that Porsche owners might/will track their cars. As an owner that does mostly street driving with his Porsche with a few track events sprinkled in, I can tell you that you are missing out if you have never taken your 911 to a DE event with POC or PCA. The POC and PCA sponsored events are extremely controlled and I would consider them very safe. I think my chances of doing something stupid on the street or getting hit by an out of control driver while driving to work are far greater than 20min spent lapping Willow Springs with the "White Group".

I wouldn't get bent out of shape over these comments but I would take your car to a DE event so you can see for yourself that even the base 997 is way over designed for the the street with capabilities that can only be safely realized on the track. Owning a 911 and not at least attending a STS event is like going to a fancy five star restaurant and ordering the Mac N' Cheese from the kids menu.

Jason

 

I agree will Jason, I really think it is safer on the track then on the street. The key is weeding out the groups of drivers that aren't at the track for th right reasons. Over the last few years myself and my friends have started doing our own track days, were only people we feel are safe enough and not driven by their ego on the track. There have been times when I didn't feel safe with other drivers, it felt like a street race on a closed circut.

In the last few years I have split my total milage driven about 50/50 on the track versus on the street. I have found a great balance for me for track versus street drivablity. I love my 997C2S, I drive the car very hard and it starts up and runs like new.

I too think everyone needs to try their car on the track, there isn't a manufacture around that can compare to Porsche's on track success. On a amatuer level, quite often older Porsche's converted to track only use, become very capable race cars.

I have learned to ignore comments on these forums, but by not commenting, sends them a message.

 

For me, my Porsche is my DD, so one might say that it "belongs" on the road. That being said, (and I live in Germany now), driving on the track is a heck of a lot more fun than on the street. For me, it is a great balance - a fun car for going to work and a great car for my limited track days!

 

All the 911 models have great performance on track, whether it was built as a "road car" or "track car". You can still have a blast in a base C2! You can of course get better performance and results in a GT3 or RS.

I strongly believe that every 911 owner should attend a DE or an AutoX. You can never truly see your cars capabilities and appreciate them on the street, not safely anyways. Unfortunately, most people purchase P-cars solely for show off... Even when I bought my car, I was feeling that way as well. I believed I bought the brand more than the car (same as women buying expensive bags, or men buying Ferrari just because of the badge).

When I started tracking it, I really started to appreciate all the engineering and design that went into the making of this car. My whole look at the car & brand changed! I hadn't bought a car that was for show, I had bought a track car in disguise!

All 911s come from a racing heritage, Porsche certainly knows what they are doing when building a car that is high performing and street friendly. I learned this later...

After seeing what my car can do on the track, I really feel sad when I see a GT3/RS on the street and they've been sitting in the garage, never been tracked for years.

We cannot force the owners to do what we want, it is up to them. We have to respect it.

 

I agree with you . Not only is there risk to taking a car to the track but it takes effort . Even though a track is far more safe than the street which seem to have the lowest common denominator of drivers there is a difference -- driving on the street takes a person to a destination (usually with purpose --like to get food or go to work) but driving on the track is simply running around in circles. It's completely different driving premise.

I also see a lot of Ego with track discussions . The entire "you must learn how to drive properly" almost sounds condescending as if there's a breed of track drivers who are legends in their own mind .

I think most of these cars are both street and track friendly . It seems like the most criticism is when a street Porsche like a Turbo cab is compared to a track car like a Gt3RS . the funny thing is that in their own element both are king and neither would embarass the other . A Turbo cab will cream a Gt3RS in any real world sprint but on the track it would lose.

That's why both really are the ideal compliment to each other .. it balances the scale .

 

Okay I cannot help myself... some more thoughts.

Let preface this by saying that I am by no means an accomplished track driver nor would I consider myself anything but a novice. My racing experience started at local drag strips, moved on to some AutoX in my M3, and now DE's in my red beast. Again, I can only speak to my extremely limited POC/PCA experience on the west coast but I think anyone considering taking their car to the track or not taking it to the track (for whatever reason) should really do some research into what is involved.

For example, I think the STS events put on my POC/PCA are a must for anyone that ever gets remotely aggressive with their Porsche. I dont know how many motorcycle riders their on this forum but I would say the STS events are very comparable to the advanced sport riders courses offered and sometimes required by many states. This is an event specifically designed to provide an environment for Porsche owners to experience their cars abilities at the limit. I am talking about braking and skidpad type events that really give you an appreciation for not only your car, but your abilities as a driver. In short, this event gives you confidence and invaluable useful knowledge that I really do not think you can get anywhere else. The STS events involve no racing nor is there any obligation to race following the event.

As for the actual track days, if your novice your going to be spending your time on the track with an instructor with a bunch of other new guys and their instructors. Your not going to be passing in corners nor is passing in corners allowed. In fact, from my experience the only passing allowed is usually on the long straights and you have to be "pointed by" in order to pass the car in front of you. There are observers throughout the course that ensure everyone is playing by the rules. Those that do not are "black flagged" and anything unsafe is discussed in the de-briefing following each session. There is no pressure to go 100% either. In fact, my instructor said he is usually an "80% guy" at these events. He showed me how to do the entire course in 3rd gear if I wanted to avoid even the slightest possibility of "money shifting" (of course every track is different).

Also, understand that within POC the field of drivers and cars is split up into different class events. The rules for each class of sessions are different and you cant just roll up in your GT3RS or 914 and pick which group you want to run in. For example, the racing I previously described is different than the "time trial" sessions that are available to the more experienced and more importantly track licensed drivers. I am starting to get in the weeds now but I want to make sure the guys that are thinking about attending a POC/PCA event understand that these DE's are much more organized than a bunch of dudes showing up to a track on a Saturday morning to race each other.

Let me go back to my motorcycle analogy. There is a big difference between the GXS-R rider that has never received any organized training and the rider that has attended a sports bike riders course. Both riders may wake up and decide to go ride their favorite back country rode but the "schooled" rider goes with confidence and knowledge the other rider does no posses. The same is true for the Porsche driver that has lapped a skidpad at 40-50mph and felt the pendulum effect created by minute throttle adjustments and felt that rear weight bias. The driver that has done brake drills and felt what the car feels like and handles like when slamming on the brakes at high speeds. I feel bad if anyone has taken offense to comments made about getting their car to the track. I know for me, I say things like that because I believe events like POC track days and especially STS's are valuable to any Porsche driver especially one that likes to occasionally driver aggressively......and lets face it, we all do.

Jason

 

Jellis -
Don't you think that to really be an accomplished track driver it takes a lot more than a part time hobby in the sport? In South Florida a lot of pro racers live here and some of them are not even 25 years old . They have sponsors and train all day. It's like the olympic athletes that train here .. it's a full time 24/7 career .

I just don't see how a person who spends 40 hours a week in an office can compete with this unless the factor out a social life .

I have no idea how a person gets to that level in driving or where one begins but at 52 years old even if i lived on a track the guys my age have 30 years of this behind them.

I know i see it in other sports . I see a lot of 30-50 year olds who want to be triathletes and they throw themselves in the pool and they never get the feel for the water at that age because they didn't start when they were kids . Even worse the ones who left the sport but started in youth can improve faster.

Now i see a young guy like Sin911 --he has a chance at this. He started young and if he goes all the time he'll probably be real good if he sticks with it.

I didn't get my first Porsche 911 until I was 35 and even though i liked fast cars I was never drawn to auto racing as some type of major event. But it sounds that this is something that you really like . Woild you actually drive as a profession?

 

I agree with Jellis on this issue. I do maybe 6 to 8 DE events a year. The POC really does a good job of instructing and keeping the events organized. I personally always welcome instruction whether it's with POC or any other group that I go out with. I feel that most of the guys I've met on the track are out there for 2 main reasons. 1. learn how to become a better driver. 2. explore the limits of our cars in a safe environment. Not everyone who tracks their car wants to be the club champion. I've also learned my share of lessons along the way. In my previous car, 996TT, I went a bit over board... spent a lot of money on various mods, stripped her out to reduce weight and the car very quickly became more than I could handle on the track (the problem was me, I needed to learn how to become a better driver). Now I'm in an almost stock Cayman S, some supporting suspension mods, no power mods, and street tires and am having the time of my life out there. I feel like I'm slowly becoming a better driver and I drive my car to work a few days a week and hit up Cars n Coffee every weekend. These cars don't have to live on the track, if anything, they can very easily be a perfect balance of DD and weekend DE fun car.

 

I think you missed my point.

Quick tangent-My current profession is literally a realization of a dream I had since I was 6 although race car driver would be a good back-up.

No, I was simply stating that track events especially events put on POC and PCA are valuable, even for the guys that dont want to get crazy and risk damaging themselves or their cars. The guy that only goes to a DE 1-3 times a year is learning things about himself and his car. In a nutshell.... DE's are opportunities to learn and this is why I compared the STS events to a motorcycle safety course. They really are very similar in scope.

Jason

 

Porsche are "performance cars".. they were built with the track in mind, specifically the nurburgring. They were built using 50 years or racing experience and evolution. Every porsche car made was influenced by its predecessors performance on the track.

To say any porsche is not at home at the track, is to ignore its racing heritage and pedigree.

That is why every porsche that follows the last performs better, because Porsche took what it learned from the track and racing and used it on the new car.....THIS IS WHAT PERFORMANCE CAR MAKES DO!

If you have never driven your porsche on the track or attended a driving school with it, then you have never felt or seen a spec what the cars was engineered to accomplish.

I'm not saying you should care, but if you want to know you can only experience this on the track, in a safe controlled environment.

At the other end, these are all cars made to take us from point a to point b.

We all love Porsche's, hence why we spend all of our free time here

But I have learned from driving MY porsche on the track, that I appreciate the car much more on the track, and able to use it to what it was engineered to do.

I get no enjoyment driving my 997S on the street any more. That is also why I bought a diesel VW for my DD, because my TDI Golf can get me from point a to point b more efficiently and for the street I need nothing more.

I personally appreciate my 997 when its on the track and I appreciate my tdi golf on the street. Do many agree with what I did to my 997S. NO... but then again its my car and I dont care what they think....

IMO, more of you should take that some logic.... its your car and do whatever the hell you want to do with it.

Park it in the garage, paint it pink, drive it to whole foods, just wax it and stare at it. Just as long as you are happy.

But my 997S lives at the track and thats where we both like it!

 

Mo,

When is the golf going to the track? I gotta get my DD on the track.

Jason