Survival of the manual transmission
#61
09-30-2010, 04:59 PM
The Golf 2-door is available in the US in manual, last I checked.
I think you should check your stats. Lots of 911s sold in Germany (to Germans) with tiptronic and now with PDK.
Last... your comment "[America] Land of the generally big fat lazy people with lots of money to burn" is simply garbage. If you are an American you should be ashamed. If you are a foreigner, you are welcome to return to your homeland. The 'fat and lazy Americans with money to burn' rebuilt Germany and keep its industry humming by buying 50% of its automotive output.
I think you should check your stats. Lots of 911s sold in Germany (to Germans) with tiptronic and now with PDK.
Last... your comment "[America] Land of the generally big fat lazy people with lots of money to burn" is simply garbage. If you are an American you should be ashamed. If you are a foreigner, you are welcome to return to your homeland. The 'fat and lazy Americans with money to burn' rebuilt Germany and keep its industry humming by buying 50% of its automotive output.
#62
09-30-2010, 05:18 PM
The timing of this thread is perfect for me...
I'm one that's been on the fence about this for some time. I purchased a C2S PDK last year for several reasons:
After driving that car for 6-7 months, all of those items appeared to be true, except the maintenance thing. But, after several visits to the shop, I ended up chalking it up to an early-build issue. And then I traded it for a P2S (PDK of course). And then I started lamenting my decision on a daily basis...how I missed my CarreraS.
So then I made the executive decision that my next purchase would be a used 911 (that storyline to be told over the next couple of years), but I kept wondering if I'd want a PDK for the long haul, or if I'd go the manual route. Being that it's not planned to be my DD, and maybe tracked on RARE occasion, what's the point of PDK?
And then came my trip to the dealer today. Normal maintenance on the P2S, and I was given the choice of a Boxster (6spd) or Cayenne (970, 6cyl). I just gave the advisor that look of "come on, what do you think?" And I had a blast ALL DAY LONG with that 6spd. I know 50% of that is just missing the sweet sound of the flat-six, but so much of it was the connected feeling I get when holding the gear longer in the range and manually shifting with the stick (instead of paddles).
Maybe my opinion will change as I continue my search for the next Porsche to be welcomed to the family, but for now my heart is with the 6spd.
I'm one that's been on the fence about this for some time. I purchased a C2S PDK last year for several reasons:
- It was going to be my DD
- PDK was faster
- PDK promised less long-term maintenance
- it was the new technology
After driving that car for 6-7 months, all of those items appeared to be true, except the maintenance thing. But, after several visits to the shop, I ended up chalking it up to an early-build issue. And then I traded it for a P2S (PDK of course). And then I started lamenting my decision on a daily basis...how I missed my CarreraS.
So then I made the executive decision that my next purchase would be a used 911 (that storyline to be told over the next couple of years), but I kept wondering if I'd want a PDK for the long haul, or if I'd go the manual route. Being that it's not planned to be my DD, and maybe tracked on RARE occasion, what's the point of PDK?
And then came my trip to the dealer today. Normal maintenance on the P2S, and I was given the choice of a Boxster (6spd) or Cayenne (970, 6cyl). I just gave the advisor that look of "come on, what do you think?" And I had a blast ALL DAY LONG with that 6spd. I know 50% of that is just missing the sweet sound of the flat-six, but so much of it was the connected feeling I get when holding the gear longer in the range and manually shifting with the stick (instead of paddles).
Maybe my opinion will change as I continue my search for the next Porsche to be welcomed to the family, but for now my heart is with the 6spd.
#63
09-30-2010, 05:29 PM
I prefer a manual transmission myself - especially in a sports car - but for those of you who haven't driven the Porsche PDK yet, it's worth a try. I've talked to many people in the car business who have indicated that manual transmissions will be phased out (not completely - but will def be harder to come by).
When I first drove the PDK (in a 911 S Cab) - I didn't think I would like driving an automatic. It is pretty impressive - very smooth, quick shifting due to the dual clutch.
I think it's like anything else; things may change but I don't see manual transmissions being entirely phased out.
When I first drove the PDK (in a 911 S Cab) - I didn't think I would like driving an automatic. It is pretty impressive - very smooth, quick shifting due to the dual clutch.
I think it's like anything else; things may change but I don't see manual transmissions being entirely phased out.
#64
09-30-2010, 07:04 PM
Last edited by uhn2000; 09-30-2010 at 07:10 PM.
#65
10-01-2010, 06:36 AM
You can do this in manual mode of PDK (or any dual clutch for that matter) as well.
#66
10-01-2010, 06:57 AM
Yeah, that was one part of the 'experience' that I had a difficult time translating to words. I did try to get used to using the manual shifting in my C2S, and every once in a while get a little frisky with the P2S and put it in manual mode. Maybe it just takes more time/experience with it to get used to it, but it always felt awkward. Not sure if it's the button v paddle issue, but never felt natural.
One interesting tidbit is whether you're driving the PDK in Sport or Sport Plus. In Sport mode, if you don't change gears every 7 seconds, it will revert to auto-mode. In Sport Plus, I think it will hold the gear until you manually shift (but not sure on this). Obviously on a track that 7 second issue shouldn't come into play, but in daily driving around town, my P2S always ends up going back to Auto mode because there's no need to change gears that often.
One interesting tidbit is whether you're driving the PDK in Sport or Sport Plus. In Sport mode, if you don't change gears every 7 seconds, it will revert to auto-mode. In Sport Plus, I think it will hold the gear until you manually shift (but not sure on this). Obviously on a track that 7 second issue shouldn't come into play, but in daily driving around town, my P2S always ends up going back to Auto mode because there's no need to change gears that often.
#68
10-01-2010, 07:37 AM
I think Sport Plus mode removes the 7-second window for shift changes, I just don't have enough experience with it to know better.
#69
10-01-2010, 09:51 AM
Simply move the shifter to D, then notch it left into M (manual).
Surely no one has this car, or had a PDK Carrera, while not knowing how to operate either? What am I missing?
Last edited by stevepow; 10-01-2010 at 09:53 AM.
#70
10-01-2010, 10:41 AM
intricacies depending on how you activated it that I'm not 100% clear on:
1) Sport v Sport Plus. In Sport mode, manual mode will automatically revert to Auto mode if you don't manually change gears within 7-8 seconds. I THINK Sport Plus mode keeps the car in the the current gear regardless of how long it's been since you've changed gears
1) Does activating Manual mode by moving the gearshift cause a different behavior that when activating manual mode by using steering wheel method (buttons/paddles). Does activating by moving gearshift to M (from D) cause the PDK to remain in manual mode, regardless of whether you're in Sport/SportPlus?
Like I said, I dont' drive in SportPlus too often (once/week?), much less Manual Mode, so I'm not entirely sure of how the PDK shifting varies between these different modes. Not too difficult (or painful) to figure it out, all I need to do is go jump in the car for a spin!
If only I could get off of all of these conference calls and go enjoy the day!!!
#71
10-01-2010, 10:56 AM
Yeah, the GT-R has a mode for something similar...
In normal manual mode - the car will shift at redline (and also downshift at low RPM's to protect itself).
In 'R' manual mode - the car will stay in gear, no matter what, until YOU shift (it will also downshift at low RPM's to protect itself), and will not downshift if you are already redlining the current gear (again, to protect itself). It also shifts gears faster in 'R' as well. Sounds like your Sport Mode Plus (or whatever it is called).
But it won't revert back to auto (like was mentioned about the PDK).
In normal manual mode - the car will shift at redline (and also downshift at low RPM's to protect itself).
In 'R' manual mode - the car will stay in gear, no matter what, until YOU shift (it will also downshift at low RPM's to protect itself), and will not downshift if you are already redlining the current gear (again, to protect itself). It also shifts gears faster in 'R' as well. Sounds like your Sport Mode Plus (or whatever it is called).
But it won't revert back to auto (like was mentioned about the PDK).
#72
10-01-2010, 11:09 AM
Manual mode is only temporary in D. Manual selection mode remains engaged:
In M, manual is always manual for upshifts, except for kickdown (auto upshifts at rev limit). Downshifts, when coming to a stop or when "kicking down", are auto.
Sport and Sport+ change the entire shift program in Auto. In M, the big notable differences are faster, less smooth shifts, and quicker throttle response - and S+ can't use 7th.
There are several pages of explanation of PDK operation in the owner's manual - a must read to really get the most enjoyment out of the car.
– for cornering (depending on the lateral acceleration) and overrunning,
– when the vehicle is stationary (e.g. at a junction).
The system leaves manual selection mode:
– automatically after approx. 8 seconds (unless cornering or overrunning),
– after driving off.– when the vehicle is stationary (e.g. at a junction).
The system leaves manual selection mode:
– automatically after approx. 8 seconds (unless cornering or overrunning),
In M, manual is always manual for upshifts, except for kickdown (auto upshifts at rev limit). Downshifts, when coming to a stop or when "kicking down", are auto.
Sport and Sport+ change the entire shift program in Auto. In M, the big notable differences are faster, less smooth shifts, and quicker throttle response - and S+ can't use 7th.
There are several pages of explanation of PDK operation in the owner's manual - a must read to really get the most enjoyment out of the car.
#74
10-01-2010, 02:03 PM
Last... your comment "[America] Land of the generally big fat lazy people with lots of money to burn" is simply garbage. If you are an American you should be ashamed. If you are a foreigner, you are welcome to return to your homeland. The 'fat and lazy Americans with money to burn' rebuilt Germany and keep its industry humming by buying 50% of its automotive output.
And for the record, the US provided the funds, but it was the Germans that were instrumental in rebuilding Germany. Its the reason the same approach is not working in Iraq and Afghanistan, and will not work in Haiti. The local people have to be inline with the rebuilding.
#75
10-01-2010, 05:25 PM
... And for the record, the US provided the funds, but it was the Germans that were instrumental in rebuilding Germany. Its the reason the same approach is not working in Iraq and Afghanistan, and will not work in Haiti. The local people have to be inline with the rebuilding.
