advice please :)
#31
01-05-2011, 08:44 AM
I noticed Yrallis' post was either removed by a mod or by himself last night and as such I won't post the whole thing up out of respect but I would like to address a couple of the points he made.
You insinuated that my careers have all fallen apart and that the commonality between them is that they've all reached an end; this in fact couldn't be further from the truth. I started my first business at 17 and was a company director for a large firm at 17 also. I made my money and got bored of what became a rather tedious an uninteresting career hence the sale and moving on. By the age of 18 I'd lived in 3 different countries on my own, I'm no stranger to doing what's necessary or taking a chance. If I'm totally honest, I knew flying wasn't going to satisfy me from the beginning because I like to move on in the world based on my own ability and merits, not because of a number of hours in my logbook. That said, I enjoy flying and became the world's lowest hours aerobatic pilot because of it.
I've always been told to believe in myself, to work hard and the rewards will come. Maybe you think this is naive or idealistic but it's always worked well for me. You mentioned "dreaming" about becoming an NBA player or buying a Porsche and beating Rohl but just because I'm good at something doesn't mean I *have* to make that my career. FYI 13-16 I was the UK XC mountain biking champion and I played national level basketball, hockey, soccer during my late teens and raced in the Ferrari challenge in my early 20's - it wasn't a lifestyle I wanted to pursue, they were hobbies. In fact, one of my major hobbies in my late teens was gaming which actually helped put me where I am today but I knew that one wouldn't last and I was right. There's actually almost no money in professional gaming these days, where as back when I was doing it, we'd get $200k for winning a tournament, now it's more like $100.
You may be surprised that I've dumped my life history on the table for you but that's what makes me who I am, I'm not afraid of my decisions in the past however wrong they were and I only look to better myself and learn from mistakes and other people. I'm very much a "what-if" kinda guy and believe me, I've planned for all eventualities but if anything's going to stand out with my past, it's that I need something challenging to sink my teeth into. I don't go into anything halfheartedly, I go in to be the best I can be.
Am I aware that things may change in the medical field in the future? Of course I am, however, you're the one who's naive if you believe medicine will collapse and all of a sudden the US will have a NHS. In all honesty, I don't care if I only earn $50k a year doing this, I'll be happy knowing that I'm doing something that challenges me and that can bring happiness to other people. We can't predict the future but by choosing my specialty carefully and being top of my classes in the mean time certainly gives me a nice head start.
I'm not a stupid young kid who doesn't know what he wants, in fact I'm very interested in many avenues of income in life. I'd be very interested to hear your suggestions on the '5 other careers' that would earn more in 10 years, so please do post those up, I may have missed something and you could come up with a fantastic idea. I will ask one thing though, how many of these careers are guaranteed long term? I considered a lot of things before going down this path, all of them ran the risk of being here today and gone tomorrow.
You've obviously done well for yourself and I applaud that but don't assume that just because you've accomplished what you have that your way is the only way or the "right" way. There are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak, and luck plays a great part in anyone's success. You can increase the likelihood of your luck by choosing wisely but I know of plenty of now bankrupt millionaires and dreamers left with nothing because they were too greedy or had no ambition.
Finally, to address your closing statement "A guy buys a Porsche and he thinks about driving it having fun .. but why not also think of the big dent an SUV can give it in a parking lot?".
If you think like this your whole life, prepare for a lot of misery, I buy my cars and look after them beautifully as a few members on this board can attest yet I drive mine and don't let things like that ruin my enjoyment. I take my car to the mall every weekend, let valet's drive it, friends drive it, it's a car that can be fixed or replaced, enjoy your life rather than worrying about it, we've only got one.
You insinuated that my careers have all fallen apart and that the commonality between them is that they've all reached an end; this in fact couldn't be further from the truth. I started my first business at 17 and was a company director for a large firm at 17 also. I made my money and got bored of what became a rather tedious an uninteresting career hence the sale and moving on. By the age of 18 I'd lived in 3 different countries on my own, I'm no stranger to doing what's necessary or taking a chance. If I'm totally honest, I knew flying wasn't going to satisfy me from the beginning because I like to move on in the world based on my own ability and merits, not because of a number of hours in my logbook. That said, I enjoy flying and became the world's lowest hours aerobatic pilot because of it.
I've always been told to believe in myself, to work hard and the rewards will come. Maybe you think this is naive or idealistic but it's always worked well for me. You mentioned "dreaming" about becoming an NBA player or buying a Porsche and beating Rohl but just because I'm good at something doesn't mean I *have* to make that my career. FYI 13-16 I was the UK XC mountain biking champion and I played national level basketball, hockey, soccer during my late teens and raced in the Ferrari challenge in my early 20's - it wasn't a lifestyle I wanted to pursue, they were hobbies. In fact, one of my major hobbies in my late teens was gaming which actually helped put me where I am today but I knew that one wouldn't last and I was right. There's actually almost no money in professional gaming these days, where as back when I was doing it, we'd get $200k for winning a tournament, now it's more like $100.
You may be surprised that I've dumped my life history on the table for you but that's what makes me who I am, I'm not afraid of my decisions in the past however wrong they were and I only look to better myself and learn from mistakes and other people. I'm very much a "what-if" kinda guy and believe me, I've planned for all eventualities but if anything's going to stand out with my past, it's that I need something challenging to sink my teeth into. I don't go into anything halfheartedly, I go in to be the best I can be.
Am I aware that things may change in the medical field in the future? Of course I am, however, you're the one who's naive if you believe medicine will collapse and all of a sudden the US will have a NHS. In all honesty, I don't care if I only earn $50k a year doing this, I'll be happy knowing that I'm doing something that challenges me and that can bring happiness to other people. We can't predict the future but by choosing my specialty carefully and being top of my classes in the mean time certainly gives me a nice head start.
I'm not a stupid young kid who doesn't know what he wants, in fact I'm very interested in many avenues of income in life. I'd be very interested to hear your suggestions on the '5 other careers' that would earn more in 10 years, so please do post those up, I may have missed something and you could come up with a fantastic idea. I will ask one thing though, how many of these careers are guaranteed long term? I considered a lot of things before going down this path, all of them ran the risk of being here today and gone tomorrow.
You've obviously done well for yourself and I applaud that but don't assume that just because you've accomplished what you have that your way is the only way or the "right" way. There are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak, and luck plays a great part in anyone's success. You can increase the likelihood of your luck by choosing wisely but I know of plenty of now bankrupt millionaires and dreamers left with nothing because they were too greedy or had no ambition.
Finally, to address your closing statement "A guy buys a Porsche and he thinks about driving it having fun .. but why not also think of the big dent an SUV can give it in a parking lot?".
If you think like this your whole life, prepare for a lot of misery, I buy my cars and look after them beautifully as a few members on this board can attest yet I drive mine and don't let things like that ruin my enjoyment. I take my car to the mall every weekend, let valet's drive it, friends drive it, it's a car that can be fixed or replaced, enjoy your life rather than worrying about it, we've only got one.
#32
01-05-2011, 09:08 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 51
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 162 
to me - if you have any current debts you pay interest on - sell non-essential assets and eliminate that debt, if you are debts free - then keep on to what you`ve got unless you have extra fat to burn without affecting any other priorities. it is just same old common sense.
#33
01-05-2011, 10:18 AM
I noticed Yrallis' post was either removed by a mod or by himself last night and as such I won't post the whole thing up out of respect but I would like to address a couple of the points he made.
That's how overwhelming and insignificant the question about selling the Porsche seems .
The more I edited the post .. the more absurd original question sounded .
I wish you the best .. but can not relate .
I can't even relate even if someone was paying for your school and supporting you .
I just can't relate on any level.
It's hard enough to start out with nothing and become a doctor at age 27 in todays field. It's quite another to have a Porsche and a home only to face this type of change and start at point zero as a student ?
.. facing so many unknowns later in life while being married ?
The Porsche depreciation almost seems isignificant.
I do feel that many of those who are physicians will be be nearing or looking at retirement by the time you reach their level. The old schiool physicians of the last generation would be surprised at todays field so we can only speculate what today's group will feel about 10 - 15 years from now .
You asked for advice .
You also asked about the Porsche.
Good luck --
Last edited by yrralis1; 01-05-2011 at 10:22 AM.
#34
01-05-2011, 10:55 AM
I've always been told to believe in myself, to work hard and the rewards will come. Maybe you think this is naive or idealistic but it's always worked well for me
In the past the music, history, or art degree student with 100+ K in debt rarely knew what to do.
At least back then doctors faced less career concerns but that field is evolving.
I think if anything was learned after the modern day economic tumble it's that success is not about chasing dreams .. it's about making choices that work .
I hope yours does .
Last edited by yrralis1; 01-05-2011 at 10:57 AM.
#35
01-05-2011, 10:58 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 41
Posts: 457
Rep Power: 54
I am thankful for your advice, it's why I asked the question and why I posted up all that I did. I am curious though as to the professions you believe will pay more in that time frame, I'd really honestly like to know.
At some time we all require medical care, god forbid it's because of an accident or simply becoming ill but I know I'd be happier and thankful knowing there were still people like many of the physicians on this forum and myself that still have the passion to help and further the cause of medicine.
At some time we all require medical care, god forbid it's because of an accident or simply becoming ill but I know I'd be happier and thankful knowing there were still people like many of the physicians on this forum and myself that still have the passion to help and further the cause of medicine.
#36
01-05-2011, 11:12 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 51
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 162 and even more - if you have had a field that was good enough to provide you with enough surplus for your own financing of a good med school ($200-300K? ) why do you even need to change it? but it is just too many questions i guess and none of them are my business.
#37
01-05-2011, 11:34 AM
I am thankful for your advice, it's why I asked the question and why I posted up all that I did. I am curious though as to the professions you believe will pay more in that time frame, I'd really honestly like to know.
At some time we all require medical care, god forbid it's because of an accident or simply becoming ill but I know I'd be happier and thankful knowing there were still people like many of the physicians on this forum and myself that still have the passion to help and further the cause of medicine.
At some time we all require medical care, god forbid it's because of an accident or simply becoming ill but I know I'd be happier and thankful knowing there were still people like many of the physicians on this forum and myself that still have the passion to help and further the cause of medicine.
2) Preface --
Did you ever wonder why doctors faced health care reform and why this type of legislation would never have passed with attorneys ?
(Doctors may be great at helping people but not too good at winning legal battles ).
Sidenote --Did you also notice that as the republicans campaigned on repealing health care they also demanded an education bill with less pay for teachers as well as municipal wage cuts ?
Conclusion -- won't matter if a democrat or republican is in office with medicine -- doctors will face these changes regardless.
They may believe otherwise .. but I think they are kidding themselves (dreaming).
So what career(s) ?
1) I feel that certain areas of law wil thrive . Contract law , regulatory law , criminal law. divorce law , marine law , accounting and tax law , accuident injury, malpractice ..
2) Robotics --deep sea robotics .. anything dealing with oil or altenative sources of energy .
Notice -- that all of my speculative suggestions point at items of a post economic broken system which is now recovering and looking towards avenues of extended growth ( for a person starting out later in life ).
Last edited by yrralis1; 01-05-2011 at 04:20 PM.
#38
01-05-2011, 11:49 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 41
Posts: 457
Rep Power: 54 I still cannot understand it - if you have enough of you own money to finance your own education - why to pay interest on 3rd party loans? it is a direct loss.
and even more - if you have had a field that was good enough to provide you with enough surplus for your own financing of a good med school ($200-300K? ) why do you even need to change it? but it is just too many questions i guess and none of them are my business.
and even more - if you have had a field that was good enough to provide you with enough surplus for your own financing of a good med school ($200-300K? ) why do you even need to change it? but it is just too many questions i guess and none of them are my business.
Secondly, I moved to the US, a nation where a degree is everything even if you can't close a deal to save your life. As it stands, I'd have to go back to school regardless just to get a degree in the relevant field so we decided to go down a slightly longer path and pick a very future proof and rewarding career. It was my choice to move here and I understand I have to live with what comes with that choice but the recession really finished off my chances of becoming a pilot here, hence looking for something more secure.
Yrallis, I did look into law before I decided on this particular path, the trouble is, morally I can't do it, I honestly cannot be that kind of person. I despise the suing culture that has engulfed the US and I will not be any part of it what so ever. That said, there are avenues that you suggested within law that are far more morally acceptable to me such as corporate and contract, the only issue for me is that I don't find any of them appealing at all!
I'm not stupid, I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. While I am looking to go the medical route, I've planned my education so that I have avenues into bioengineering and chemistry based applications, which of course leads me to oil based industry as well.
We are due to face changes in this country with regards to medicine, however no government is going to just swoop in and make it like the British NHS which is hemorrhaging money every year, the industry is far too important to the US economy to shut it down and nationalize it. While I don't credit the government with huge amounts of intelligence beyond the length of their own nose, I'd like to think that they will see the implications of making medicine an unattractive career choice before they go down that path. If they don't, they'll just end up with what the UK had back a few decades ago, "the brain drain" where all the highly educated people just went elsewhere and left the UK almost devoid of important professionals!
Medicine has been something I always knew I'd end up in, I just wasn't mature enough to take that path at age 16 (high school graduation in the UK).
Last edited by DaveHutchinson; 01-05-2011 at 11:52 AM.
#39
01-05-2011, 11:57 AM
I think the US suffers from the opposite of Brain Drain actually. It's cheaper to import skilled and educated people than train them ourselves. Just look at the technology world. H1B visas abound in the SF Bay Area.
#40
01-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Yrralis, I don't know why you're so down on someone wanting to dedicate himself to a meaningful career. Yes there are many meaningful careers and he chose medicine. So what? Debt from school loans? Considering that nearly everyone needs student loans and yet still manages to avoid bankrupcy, I don't think it a good reason to choose another profession.
Medicine is screwed up for many reasons, but the practice of medicine is an honorable profession which is just being screwed up by corporate greed and government inefficiency. You are right in that it doesn't matter whether a democrat or republican is in office because the problem goes much deeper than mere politics.
As for your alternate suggestions, I would argue that law is one of the worst fields to start now. It's hard enough for lawyers to find a job in this market now without having to compete with 40,000+ new graduates every year for a job. You can't seriously believe that the legal profession creates that many new jobs every year, can you? You know what they call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea? Quantitative easing (and a good start)
To the OP, admire your dedication and wish you the best of luck because it is a long hard road ahead. You should keep the P-car because I think you will find that it will be much easier to upgrade from an existing C2S to somthing better than to try to convice the wife that dropping a hunk of change on a new P-car is a good idea. Cheers
Medicine is screwed up for many reasons, but the practice of medicine is an honorable profession which is just being screwed up by corporate greed and government inefficiency. You are right in that it doesn't matter whether a democrat or republican is in office because the problem goes much deeper than mere politics.
As for your alternate suggestions, I would argue that law is one of the worst fields to start now. It's hard enough for lawyers to find a job in this market now without having to compete with 40,000+ new graduates every year for a job. You can't seriously believe that the legal profession creates that many new jobs every year, can you? You know what they call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea? Quantitative easing (and a good start)
To the OP, admire your dedication and wish you the best of luck because it is a long hard road ahead. You should keep the P-car because I think you will find that it will be much easier to upgrade from an existing C2S to somthing better than to try to convice the wife that dropping a hunk of change on a new P-car is a good idea. Cheers
#41
01-05-2011, 12:38 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 51
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 162 I never had a luxury of anything in the bank at that time neither, here we differ, but, if you are positive that 120 months 100K loan that makes you pay 40K in interest is a good deal for you - why not. for me it is still a bit much. any loan is a loss.
as of medical path - radiologist or anesthesiologist is an OK profession, but, i just would be realistic how many years you will have to spend and as yrallys said - employment is not guaranteed to nobody these days.
america likes self-employed folks so you are at the moment in your life when you can actually make a choice either to work for a paycheck as a corporate slave or to become your own boss, do the second, if you can.
what will work out better in this current economy i cannot say but if you do have any sort of diploma right now I would get it evaluated and tried to proceed in that field rather than to start from a scratch paying your own money for a school. it is just what I think and may not be your best option, of course.
#42
01-05-2011, 12:49 PM
Yrralis, I don't know why you're so down on someone wanting to dedicate himself to a meaningful career. Yes there are many meaningful careers and he chose medicine. So what? Debt from school loans? Considering that nearly everyone needs student loans and yet still manages to avoid bankrupcy, I don't think it a good reason to choose another profession.
Medicine is screwed up for many reasons, but the practice of medicine is an honorable profession which is just being screwed up by corporate greed and government inefficiency. You are right in that it doesn't matter whether a democrat or republican is in office because the problem goes much deeper than mere politics.
As for your alternate suggestions, I would argue that law is one of the worst fields to start now. It's hard enough for lawyers to find a job in this market now without having to compete with 40,000+ new graduates every year for a job. You can't seriously believe that the legal profession creates that many new jobs every year, can you? You know what they call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea? Quantitative easing (and a good start)
To the OP, admire your dedication and wish you the best of luck because it is a long hard road ahead. You should keep the P-car because I think you will find that it will be much easier to upgrade from an existing C2S to somthing better than to try to convice the wife that dropping a hunk of change on a new P-car is a good idea. Cheers
Medicine is screwed up for many reasons, but the practice of medicine is an honorable profession which is just being screwed up by corporate greed and government inefficiency. You are right in that it doesn't matter whether a democrat or republican is in office because the problem goes much deeper than mere politics.
As for your alternate suggestions, I would argue that law is one of the worst fields to start now. It's hard enough for lawyers to find a job in this market now without having to compete with 40,000+ new graduates every year for a job. You can't seriously believe that the legal profession creates that many new jobs every year, can you? You know what they call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea? Quantitative easing (and a good start)
To the OP, admire your dedication and wish you the best of luck because it is a long hard road ahead. You should keep the P-car because I think you will find that it will be much easier to upgrade from an existing C2S to somthing better than to try to convice the wife that dropping a hunk of change on a new P-car is a good idea. Cheers
2) No where in my post did i suggest that the law profession was easy . I did say that the possibilities in certain areas of law for the long term point towards a field which still has growth potential.
Lastly -- There's no easy step making a career change at 27 . Those challenges heighten wihen schooling expense and a 6 year time period are added . This risk increases exponentially when the entire system has faced a major legislative overhaul . And ultimately .. "happiness" is defined by the individual . This is what i wish for him . Whether you agree with my suggestions or not.
#43
01-05-2011, 12:50 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 41
Posts: 457
Rep Power: 54 well, what can I say... I was 26 when I came to work here in USA, actually, I had my masters in CS degree and job from the start, so, I never had a real choice to choose different career and do not really regret it.
I never had a luxury of anything in the bank at that time neither, here we differ, but, if you are positive that 120 months 100K loan that makes you pay 40K in interest is a good deal for you - why not. for me it is still a bit much. any loan is a loss.
as of medical path - radiologist or anesthesiologist is an OK profession, but, i just would be realistic how many years you will have to spend and as yrallys said - employment is not guaranteed to nobody these days.
america likes self-employed folks so you are at the moment in your life when you can actually make a choice either to work for a paycheck as a corporate slave or to become your own boss, do the second, if you can.
what will work out better in this current economy i cannot say but if you do have any sort of diploma right now I would get it evaluated and tried to proceed in that field rather than to start from a scratch paying your own money for a school. it is just what I think and may not be your best option, of course.
I never had a luxury of anything in the bank at that time neither, here we differ, but, if you are positive that 120 months 100K loan that makes you pay 40K in interest is a good deal for you - why not. for me it is still a bit much. any loan is a loss.
as of medical path - radiologist or anesthesiologist is an OK profession, but, i just would be realistic how many years you will have to spend and as yrallys said - employment is not guaranteed to nobody these days.
america likes self-employed folks so you are at the moment in your life when you can actually make a choice either to work for a paycheck as a corporate slave or to become your own boss, do the second, if you can.
what will work out better in this current economy i cannot say but if you do have any sort of diploma right now I would get it evaluated and tried to proceed in that field rather than to start from a scratch paying your own money for a school. it is just what I think and may not be your best option, of course.
As for the loan, obviously I wouldn't let it run its entire term but it's nice to have that safety net in the bank rather than dump it all on school and have nothing left in reserve in the event of an emergency.
Radiology is the very field I'll be going into. I have been toying with the idea of trauma surgery too but we'll see what my heart desires after all the school is done.
I have already had all my qualifications evaluated and put towards my degree which helped a lot and cut down the time quite significantly.
I had considered starting another business but it doesn't matter how good you are, sometimes you can be unlucky and to be honest, I'd hate to look back in 5-10 years and say "I wish I'd just gone to med school". Now I'm not saying any company is doomed to fail, far from it, I've done it myself and did well but there's an air of uncertainty with it, it can be here one minute, gone the next. I'm fortunate that I have a wife that's understanding and supportive enough to help me through these next few years so I can be part of a profession that's certainly not going anywhere! Ultimately I would love to have my own practice; to be able to blend business and medicine is my endgame goal but one step at a time heh.
#44
01-05-2011, 12:51 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 51
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 162 1) I feel that certain areas of law wil thrive . Contract law , regulatory law , criminal law. divorce law , marine law , accounting and tax law , accuident injury, malpractice ..
2) Robotics --deep sea robotics .. anything dealing with oil or altenative sources of energy .
Notice -- that all of my speculative suggestions point at items of a post economic broken system which is now recovering and looking towards avenues of extended growth ( for a person starting out later in life ).
2) Robotics --deep sea robotics .. anything dealing with oil or altenative sources of energy .
Notice -- that all of my speculative suggestions point at items of a post economic broken system which is now recovering and looking towards avenues of extended growth ( for a person starting out later in life ).
grim or not grim, it is just a reality - company I work for which is subsidiary of Alcatel-lucent - we did not hire anybody since fall 2008 nor we had any salary adjustments while we still generate revenue and are profitable (so we still manage to avoid mass layoffs).
it is what it is right now. pretty much anybody who still has a job is grateful just for that fact alone.
#45
01-05-2011, 12:59 PM
it is an interesting turn of a conversation as IMHO in reality there are no good fields to start in right now, at all.
grim or not grim, it is just a reality - company I work for which is subsidiary of Alcatel-lucent - we did not hire anybody since fall 2008 nor we had any salary adjustments while we still generate revenue and are profitable (so we still manage to avoid mass layoffs).
it is what it is right now. pretty much anybody who still has a job is grateful just for that fact alone.
grim or not grim, it is just a reality - company I work for which is subsidiary of Alcatel-lucent - we did not hire anybody since fall 2008 nor we had any salary adjustments while we still generate revenue and are profitable (so we still manage to avoid mass layoffs).
it is what it is right now. pretty much anybody who still has a job is grateful just for that fact alone.
.......a young person does have to start somewhere though.