My Dilemma: Porsche or Fisker
#46
12-22-2011, 03:30 PM
Wait until the Fisker has been out for a year...otherwise you risk having your car in the shop a LOT as there are so many unknowns with this technology. It's one thing to have bleeding-edge technology for home electronics, but a whole other ballgame with a CAR. And if there are a lot of issues with them...then it won't be as easy to get rid of as you might think.
#47
12-22-2011, 08:46 PM
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You have to ask yourself two questions.
Do you want a high performance car with a proven track record, high reliability, readily available parts and service backed up by one of the largest car makers in the world. Then the Porsche is the answer.
Do you want a trophy car without a proven track record, unknown reliability, limited or non-existent parts and service availability, first year of production with a high likelihood of significant design and engineering problems backed by a shell company with virtually no real assets, and real questions as to whether it will actually ever be made, and one that if it is you will probably never really be able to drive much. Then Fisker is the answer.
Do you want a high performance car with a proven track record, high reliability, readily available parts and service backed up by one of the largest car makers in the world. Then the Porsche is the answer.
Do you want a trophy car without a proven track record, unknown reliability, limited or non-existent parts and service availability, first year of production with a high likelihood of significant design and engineering problems backed by a shell company with virtually no real assets, and real questions as to whether it will actually ever be made, and one that if it is you will probably never really be able to drive much. Then Fisker is the answer.
#48
12-23-2011, 01:30 AM
Friends with an auto designer very familiar with the car. Said it's a good looking mess. 2.something liter turbo Chrysler motor and the electric range is <50 miles. Takes forever to recharge fully.
I saw one in person at Irvine Cars and Coffee two weeks or so ago and it did get a TON of attention. Sharp. I thought it weird that that big chrome grill is non functional and is, in fact, sitting in front of the very visible crash foam...it's a grill to nowhere other than black foam. Weird.
You'll be the it guy on the block. Very attractive car.
I saw one in person at Irvine Cars and Coffee two weeks or so ago and it did get a TON of attention. Sharp. I thought it weird that that big chrome grill is non functional and is, in fact, sitting in front of the very visible crash foam...it's a grill to nowhere other than black foam. Weird.
You'll be the it guy on the block. Very attractive car.
#49
12-23-2011, 04:17 AM
Update: I thought I would update you all on my continuing saga. I did order a the Fisker last week after I finally did a test drive. But, after spending the past year with events like the PSDS, DS and DE, I finally decided I can't go on with out having a 911. So I couldn't believe it when my wife said I can keep both. However,there is a catch...her wagon stays in the garage and one of my cars has to stay outside....tried reasoning the 10 year old wagon is not worth much so it should go outside but then I realized I should quit while I was ahead. So my options.
1) Put my 09 C4s with 7200 miles outside...quick way to devalue the car in the NW
2) Try to stack the cars with a lift, but I have friggin' 18" beam in the middle of my 10 ft garage that would make that difficult
3) Trade in my 09 with PDK that still has 3 year warrantee for an 05 stick that will have significantly lower value and I wont mind it being outside as much. I think I want stick anyway since now the car will be primarily be used for DEs. Plus I can freely modify it since I would no longer have to worry about warrantee issues.
4) Just get rid of the C4S. The Fisker dealer said that they would give me 78K for it which I thought was pretty good especially when I look at the tax benefits it gives me with the Fisker...about $7500. Then I just buy a 2005 when the time is right.
Love to hear all of your thoughts.
1) Put my 09 C4s with 7200 miles outside...quick way to devalue the car in the NW
2) Try to stack the cars with a lift, but I have friggin' 18" beam in the middle of my 10 ft garage that would make that difficult
3) Trade in my 09 with PDK that still has 3 year warrantee for an 05 stick that will have significantly lower value and I wont mind it being outside as much. I think I want stick anyway since now the car will be primarily be used for DEs. Plus I can freely modify it since I would no longer have to worry about warrantee issues.
4) Just get rid of the C4S. The Fisker dealer said that they would give me 78K for it which I thought was pretty good especially when I look at the tax benefits it gives me with the Fisker...about $7500. Then I just buy a 2005 when the time is right.
Love to hear all of your thoughts.
#50
12-23-2011, 07:47 PM
I would pass on the Fisker. I wanted to own one. I'm a fan of The man and his cars (I own an Aston Vantage). So I got on the list and test drove them. Here are my thoughts:
- when the car is in electric mode only, its kinda cool. Feels like a new experience.
- Slow, even when in sport mode. Those must be some very small horses. My s4 is far better.
- Under ANY kind of load the 4 banger is too crass, too noisy. For me it felt like I was driving some kind of cheap GM. The pre-production models seemed to have the exhaust terminate under the drivers foot somewhere. That alone was a deal killer.
- the car feels huge to drive. You can feel the weight.
- I remember the brakes feeling great.
- on the early cars the fit and finish is awful. Final cars are said to be better. It does look pretty good though.
- no one seemed to notice us when we were driving. My Aston and my orange Boxster got far more stares. Parked, it drew a crowed.
- the interior has some odd choices, though it's well done. But it is too cramped considering how big the car is.
So, I chose not to buy. They keep calling and wanting me to test drive the lastest update.
There is no way it could replace my Aston. It's no where near as sporting a sedan as my S4 (though that's being replaced with a997), and our Range Rover does family hauling better. I can't seem to find a place for it.
I'm also not sure how green it is by the time you take the production and disposal of the batteries into consideration. I see plenty of Eurpean diesels getting fantastic mileage. Keeping in mind the Karma will run that four pot as soon as you put your foot down.
Plus, depreciation is gonna be a *****. You have a ten year old wagon. Who is going to want a ten year old prototype Fisker? How long is that battery good for?
Do they sell diesel Panamara's in the US?
I was Sooo wanting to love it, but it didn't make sense for me.
Perhaps it will work for you.
- when the car is in electric mode only, its kinda cool. Feels like a new experience.
- Slow, even when in sport mode. Those must be some very small horses. My s4 is far better.
- Under ANY kind of load the 4 banger is too crass, too noisy. For me it felt like I was driving some kind of cheap GM. The pre-production models seemed to have the exhaust terminate under the drivers foot somewhere. That alone was a deal killer.
- the car feels huge to drive. You can feel the weight.
- I remember the brakes feeling great.
- on the early cars the fit and finish is awful. Final cars are said to be better. It does look pretty good though.
- no one seemed to notice us when we were driving. My Aston and my orange Boxster got far more stares. Parked, it drew a crowed.
- the interior has some odd choices, though it's well done. But it is too cramped considering how big the car is.
So, I chose not to buy. They keep calling and wanting me to test drive the lastest update.
There is no way it could replace my Aston. It's no where near as sporting a sedan as my S4 (though that's being replaced with a997), and our Range Rover does family hauling better. I can't seem to find a place for it.
I'm also not sure how green it is by the time you take the production and disposal of the batteries into consideration. I see plenty of Eurpean diesels getting fantastic mileage. Keeping in mind the Karma will run that four pot as soon as you put your foot down.
Plus, depreciation is gonna be a *****. You have a ten year old wagon. Who is going to want a ten year old prototype Fisker? How long is that battery good for?
Do they sell diesel Panamara's in the US?
I was Sooo wanting to love it, but it didn't make sense for me.
Perhaps it will work for you.
Last edited by black penguin; 12-23-2011 at 07:54 PM.
#51
12-23-2011, 11:07 PM
I heard a rumor that the second year of karma production would use the new BMW 4 cylinder engine coming out shortly. This would hopefully address the weakness of the current engine and possibly add a turbo into the mix. I would also hope for better electric range extension due to increased battery size. Any reason why the Tesla S wasn't on your radar as an option?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the vehicle once you take delivery. What options did you end up picking? (color etc.)
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the vehicle once you take delivery. What options did you end up picking? (color etc.)
#52
12-23-2011, 11:07 PM
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: MI, Washington
Posts: 489
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I agree with a lot of what you say, Black Penguin. Its definitely not a sports car. Its a luxury sedan that I am buying for commuting in Seattle traffic. The Porsche I will be for the weekends is the way I am thinking now. At the end of the day, I really want to support Fisker. I have always struggled with the fact that electrics have always looked ugly and Fisker was the first to break that mold. The car needs to be refined no question (like that damn gas engine), but ultimately, it goes against convention, and thats what I like. If you think about it, that is what I like about Porsche...it goes against convetion with its engine behind the rear wheels.
BTW I would have a tough time replacing an Aston with a Fisker as well.
BTW I would have a tough time replacing an Aston with a Fisker as well.
#55
12-24-2011, 01:08 PM
A123, the maker and supplier of the battery for the Fisker Karma admitted that due to a flawed design, cooling issue can be a problem for the battery, as well as a coolant leak that can short circuit the battery. There is a fix for it and it should be done by the time production models are made. Given this new development, I would just enjoy your P-Car for at least another 1-2 yrs to see where Fisker will be. Best of luck.
#58
12-24-2011, 05:07 PM
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: MI, Washington
Posts: 489
Rep Power: 45
Definitely will let you all know the outcome....
#59
12-24-2011, 05:08 PM
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: MI, Washington
Posts: 489
Rep Power: 45
You are absolutely right...there are much bigger problems in the world that is for sure.
#60
12-24-2011, 06:59 PM
I think you should seriously look at keeping your garage queen C4S and instead of altering your garage, rent space for 2 cars offsite (for your "track car" GT3 2007 or 2008 C2S and for your C4S). Use the Fisker for the DD (get some assurances that if the gas motor gets upgraded that you can get some "considerations" for the Fisker.2. Makes it easier to share your track car with "friends"